22 Creedmoor vs the 22-250 AI

Sgt_Mike

Sgt_Mike

Well-known member
Rather than have a Zombie thread pop back up.
22-250AI vs 22 Creed

Now I don't own a 22 Creedmoor but I do know the capacity of the two cases they are SOOO close in CC volume. There isn't any difference ( 0.0001of a cc isn't any difference).
I also know that BOTH run at the same pressure limits. Projected velocities within same powder/bullet combo's are pretty much the same.

It's exactly like arguing the 6.5 Creedmore vs 6.5X57 mauser... ballistic twins the exact same thing. The Creedmore in the 6.5mm is shorter than the x57 case but at the same volume. Thanks to the increase shoulder diameter a reducing case taper on the Creed vs the longer Mauser. ( I own both only diff is one can be fed into a short action magazine and brass is easier to obtain on one than the other) which one do I prefer neither they are the same, I like them equally. The same argument of the 6mm Creed vs 244 Rem or aka 6mm Remington can be used (IIRC the 243 AI and the other two are so close in case capacity it could be introduced).

Back to the topic 22 Creed VS the 22-250 AI

Some consider the fire forming of the 22-250 AI a waste of supplies and barrel life.
Welll not exactly, one can simply use the method of COW fireforming, Cream of wheat over somewhere between 5-9grs of Unique ( I think 9grs is the magic number with the 22-250 AI) using soap or toilet paper to keep the cream of wheat in place. That does not reduce barrel life as no bullet is inducing wear, your only cost is 5grs of powder and a primer.
I know some will be like me "I don't like the idea of shoot cream of wheat in my barrel" even though I know for a fact it doesn't hurt a thing. But that being said there is a solution there as well.
Usually when one has a barrel done, a section of barrel is usually cut ,or the person doing the fitting or making of a prefit barrel has a section of barrels that is just too short to do anything with.
One could chamber a cut off section of barrel for use in a single shot shotgun fireforming tool in the shape of a 12/20/28/410 gauge shell. Here is the MOST important part the bore must be smooth bore (drilled out for NFA reasons, no rifling allowed). Head space flush with the back of the case with fuax shotgun fire form tool.

NOT to SAAMI spec you say pffffttttt it will be when it's run through a FL sizing die even if the Headspace fits in the NO GO side. Problem / whining solved. Your only argument is you just don't want to do it. OK fine if you don't then don't doesn't mean others won't.
Absolutely hate Fireform? pick the Creed, but do not ever speak to me of you wanting to do a wildcat cartridge. Because fireforming is required for wildcat cartridges.
No difference with the 22 Hornet going to 22 K Hornet. Too easy

Thanks to advancement with powders as well as the barrel metallurgy improvements both "should" have the same barrel life. Dependent upon the shooters barrel care, and when the shooter determines that a barrel is worn out. (My 722 in 6mm Remington is still sporting her may 1956 original barrel, IMO it's fine).

What can a 22 Creed do that a 22-25 AI with the same twist bullet/powder do. Nothing in the Grand scheme of things. Does it detract from the other absolutely not ...... pick your favorite both are Fine / Great Cartridges.
 
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hmm OK @why
I'll bite....

the 22 Creed case is 1.920" max length, shoulder diameter .462" at 30 degrees. (source Hornady reloading manual)
the 22-250 AI case is 1.912" max length, shoulder diameter .454" at 40 degrees. (source Sierra Reloading manual)
so the Creed is what 0.008" longer or bigger diameter at the shoulder. Hold up a set of calipers and see what 0.008" is .....
standard 20 lb copy paper (75 gsm) is about 0.0038 inches, so that is roughly two sheets thickness
Neck diameter is 0.002" thicker on the 22 CM.

BOTH can be set to the same COAL dependent on the chamber reamer Freebore length.

Key question is do you own both in order to make that statement as a fact? If so are they the same make model for a apple to apple comparison?

I know I don't . So I won't count or discount your statement, just asking what are you basing your facts on.
Not all rifles use the same feed rail setup. some Winchester feed way better than a Old Remington and vice versa. Or is that statement just heresy from the ?????

(Remember the 22-250 Ackley Improved is NOT the same case as the 22-250 it is based on, one of the attributes of the AI is in fact feeding as well as increased case capacity and Velocity gains)
 
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ummm@why
I'd need to see relevant facts and sources to verify this. Feeding is a individual rifle by analysis, not as a general rule. Magazines can be the simplest fix for feeding issues, I can't get on board with "ALL" 22CM feed better.
 
I own a 6.5cm and a 22-250AI. I think most will agree that a 30* shoulder cartridge will feed better than a 40* cartridge. If you don't like the CM that's fine but it will generally feed better than a 22-250AI
 
I happen to know a absolute coyote killing machine who shoots and hunts with both a 22-250 AI and a 22creed and as he says so far he sees zero difference between the two. He hasn't had any feeding issues and as someone who likes to load for speed he says they are neck and neck with each other in speed and performance.
 
why said:
I own a 6.5cm and a 22-250AI. I think most will agree that a 30* shoulder cartridge will feed better than a 40* cartridge. If you don't like the CM that's fine but it will generally feed better than a 22-250AI
Click to expand...
so you don't own a 22 CM but a 6.5 CM.
same as me.
I'm sorry but how is your using the 6.5 CM feeding valid. If that is the case I could use my 6mm Remington or the 6.5x57 mm Mauser vs the 6.5CM argument.
IMHO your statement is a fanboy/girl based opinion statement, of course that is just a opinion.
I don't own two of the same type rifles in the chambering of 22-250 AI 22CM, and you appear to be in the same boat.
As such I would not ever bring up feeding of the two cartridges, but to say I don't know.
But of course you are entitled to your own opinions, just not entitled to alter facts.

P.S.
DON'T make a Assumption that I dislike the 22 CM.... The post is what is the difference not to detract from the Creedmore vs the AI.
IF you read closely I'm NOT bashing the CM offering personally I think the CM offerings have helped bring new shooters in. I do dislike the Hype. But I would happily add a CM in the stable. So no I'm not hating on the CM
 
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Sgt_Mike said:
P.S.
DON'T make a Assumption that I dislike the 22 CM.... The post is what is the difference not to detract from the Creedmore vs the AI.
IF you read closely I'm NOT bashing the CM offering personally I think the CM offerings have helped bring new shooters in. I do dislike the Hype. But I would happily add a CM in the stable. So no I'm not hating on the CM
Click to expand...
This ^^^^^^^^
 
Having thought long and hard about this.
There is 1 thing that the 22 CM does offer that the 22-250 AI doesn't normally offer (without massive efforts working down brass from 308 win SRP brass, but is doable).
That is small rifle primer brass offering without a bunch of work. To some that could be counted as a advantage, to others not so.

(which having brass in both LRP and SRP could keep one in ammo if / actually when another massive primer supply issue hits, just a thought).

Speaking of I need to work up some 6.5 CM varmint loads with SRP brass for my Remington 700 PCR, to shoot against the LRP brass. Just see if the std dev is improved or if it's a moot point which is sort of my assumption before trying.
Thanks' to all whom has posted and participated thus far and in the future in this discussion.
Regards
Mike
 
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22CM is just the easy button. Heck, Hornady makes factory ammo for it now.

But yes, other than skipping all that fire-forming business, I would say the main advantage is the ability to easily use SRP brass. Forget potential SD / ES advantages that may or may not exist, the real advantage is keeping a tight primer pocket. To me, the point of a 22CM or 22-250 is speed. Most guys (myself included) are going to run them a bit hot. When you do that with LRP brass, the primer pockets won't last long. SRP is not a "fix" exactly, but it does last longer.
 
Ackley did both 40⁰ and a 28⁰ version of the 22-250AI. In his book he said to use 220 Swift data to load either. I believe I have a set of the 28⁰ RCBS dies stashed away somewhere in the shop, back before bushing dies I used it for a neck sizing die as the set was cheaper than a 22-250 neck die.
 
AWS said:
Ackley did both 40⁰ and a 28⁰ version of the 22-250AI. In his book he said to use 220 Swift data to load either. I believe I have a set of the 28⁰ RCBS dies stashed away somewhere in the shop, back before bushing dies I used it for a neck sizing die as the set was cheaper than a 22-250 neck die.
Click to expand...
Then why not just shoot a 220 Swift?
 
WyoBull said:
Then why not just shoot a 220 Swift?
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Same reason many claim to flock to the CM series (gun writers, Gun magazines touting the marketing) the 220 Swift was a long action versus the 22-250 (aka 22 Varminter before being picked up in a factory chambering) in a Short action (IIRC).
And folks understood the Swift was faster in more ways than one. Faster in velocity and faster to replace barrels. It is a killing machine able to vaporize varmint bullets at will.
Many would never go without one.
With todays barrels and powder I would guess the barrel life is greatly enhanced for the Swift. Old cat can probably speak to the barrel life of yesteryear better than I. I just remember many talking about burning up a swift barrel on PD towns in a day.

Oh forgot... it (220 Swift) was based on the 6mm Lee Navy case, so it was semi rimmed. Which also many claimed to be a down side.
 
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I use fire form loads for shooting everything I'd shoot with formed loads. Velocity difference is very small, accuracy is good. I don't understand why people thing fire forming is a lot of work or waste of components, its not.

I doubt I'll ever own anything with creedmore in the name, I just can't stand to listen to people talk about their wonder gun in 6.5 crapmore!

I like my 22-250 AI, and my 17AI hornet, and my 17-223, and my 375-338. I am thinking about rebarreling my 243 to a 260AI.
 
I do almost all my fireforming for everything by stopping beating hearts. Works for me. Exception is the Dasher's. The shoulder has to move so much, I do a pistol powder/no bullet first fireforming. Which never leaves the shoulder really crisp. But then I finish them off with a full power load on beating hearts.

- DAA
 
I've even been known to fireform my primers
🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

serious note the dashers are just tack drivers
260 AI although NO experience with it many seem to really like theirs.
 
Sgt_Mike said:
Same reason many claim to flock to the CM series (gun writers, Gun magazines touting the marketing) the 220 Swift was a long action versus the 22-250 (aka 22 Varminter before being picked up in a factory chambering) in a Short action (IIRC).
And folks understood the Swift was faster in more ways than one. Faster in velocity and faster to replace barrels. It is a killing machine able to vaporize varmint bullets at will.
Many would never go without one.
With todays barrels and powder I would guess the barrel life is greatly enhanced for the Swift. Old cat can probably speak to the barrel life of yesteryear better than I. I just remember many talking about burning up a swift barrel on PD towns in a day.

Oh forgot... it (220 Swift) was based on the 6mm Lee Navy case, so it was semi rimmed. Which also many claimed to be a down side.
Click to expand...
As Old Cat said, I guess I am just old as well and gladly keep my Swift. To me the mighty Swift is still the King! I do believe in the beginning that is was a barrel burner but as you said, with today's barrels, I don't believe that to be the case. I have a gen one 700 VSSF in the Swift that still shoots 1/2 MOA or better and I have been shooting it since 1993. That is the rifle I ham holding in my avatar.
I understand the bullet manufacturers are marketing driven and have to keep reinventing what is already out there and create a perceived better mouse trap. I wish they would focus a little more on better bullet technology for what has already been developed.
 
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