Boom Stick-Shotgun
- Thread starter SnowmanMo
- Start date
GC & I have had vigorously debated in the past about shotguns. Barrel length & screw choked vs factory non-choked FC. Being the primary disagreements. GC is well versed in types of shot, shot size, patterns & screw in chokes tubes ect. Because of his testing & usage. Myself, I've always used factory FC with long barrels, out to 36" barrel. Then one day not many years ago. I bought an "import" 3" mag, 12ga, 20" barrel, AR-semi auto model from Turkey, On that shotgun is marked "Derya Arms". It came with choke tubes. Not until I shot that shotgun with a screw in FC tube installed. Did his words convince me. I was wrong about short barrels & tube choked shotguns. So GC finally made me a believer/(Happy now GC? lol!). His point became valid to me. I bought a box of 3" mag BB & also a box of "3" mag Buffered 4Buck. I did not test them for penetration. But I did test them for patterning. I was stunned how tight this short barreled shotgun patterned! I stepped off right around 60+-65 yards. It shot best I can recall now days. It patterned around 6-7' diameter. With both copper BB & buffered Rem 4Buck. Myself patterns are important at varying yardages. But just as important is penetration..... Penetration being the most important imo. I used 1/2" & 3/4" plywood for penetration testing at varied yardages. When I was heavily into using shotguns many years ago.Boom Stick-Shotgun
We covered some of the entry level considerations for a rifle caliber for predator hunting.
It wouldn’t be right to leave out the tried-and-true shotgun.
870 FieldMaster Black Synthetic_Right profile by Jason Mosler, on Flickr
I was once asked what gun I would choose if I could only have ONE for hunting. I didn’t hesitate. I can hunt everything that I want with a 12 gauge shotgun. There are few guns as versatile as a shotgun. The variety of loads, chokes and barrel options make the shotgun a predator hunters dream. Now for the elephant in the room…YOU have to set up and run your stands correctly to get a shotgun to work. That is true even for rifles. You cannot rely on the ability for the cartridge to shoot long distances to make up for your shortcomings as a predator hunter.
I started using a shotgun to call areas that had limitations on using center fire firearms for hunting. At first I was mad, I was getting locked out of some good hunting areas because I couldn’t use a rifle. I happened to be out hunting with my daughter one day in a shotgun area for birds and bunnies when I watched 4 bobcats walk across a field. I sat and watched them. I learned so much by observing them. I started researching what I needed to do to get my bird hunting gun ready for some fur harvesting.
I had to decide on what gauge I was going to run. The more lead in the air, the better. Shotguns are about odds. When you pattern your load and your choke out of your shogun you are really calculating the most PROBABLE amount of hits on a given target. I know there are specialty offerings out there, I have run some myself. Some are better than others. But for me, the 12 gauge was my choice. I tried to run a 20 gauge and I had some less than acceptable results. Once, I called in a coyote and let the shot fly when the coyote was about 25 yards from us. Normally a lethal distance, I saw the coyote take a clear hit, tumble and roll right into a full run. Looking back we agreed that there was probably only one pellet hit on the coyote that we could both see. There just wasn’t enough hot lead in the air. I usually don’t feel comfortable about running a load/choke/shotgun combination if it falls under a 25% hit ratio. On a 41 pellet load of #4 buckshot that equates to about 10 or 11 pellet hits. I have seen a lot of people talk about 00 buck. Again there just isn’t enough lead in the air for me. I once fired a 00 buck load at a milk jug. 3 shells got me ONE pellet hit. Not good odds from where I sit.
I have used tungsten loads as well as some other specialty loads and while they can be lethal at some impressive distances, they can also be expensive. For me, my favorite loads are 41 pellet, 3in, #4 buckshot. I also like the T-shot loads and the BB or BBB loads from companies like Hornady. Again, more shot in the air the better. Of course cost has to factor in. The 3-1/2in Hevi-shot are running somewhere north of $10/shell…not something that I feel like spending on knocking the air out of a coyote. Now, a prime bobcat, during a good fur buying season, that’s another matter.
You can try to glean some information about what your gun is going to do with a patterning board, but I find that there are some good alternative surrogates that can be used to indicate how effective a load/choke/shotgun combination are going to be. If I am patterning a load for foxes, a simple shoe box closely resembles the relative size of a grey fox. A slightly bigger box can be a great stand in for a coyote or bobcat. You can put legs on it to set it at the right height and it can also get you used to practicing shooting predators with your shotgun.
YES, you can MISS with a shotgun. Lack of practice means that you are likely to miss. Just like with a rifle a good predator hunter practices with their shotgun. So if your ammunition is cost prohibitive to practice, you are not going to be successful when the time comes.
You will also need to determine what choke your particular load and shotgun prefer. Not all chokes work in all shotguns with all loads. A friend of mine tried to emulate my success with the same brand and size of choke but in a different brand of shotgun. He had a lot of success with a very basic shotgun so he was very excited to get a shotgun that was really made for predator hunting. He didn’t skimp on the money he spent, he bought a pretty high end shotgun. He was very, very disappointed. After missing 5 straight coyotes I was pretty sure we were going to see a little Shaka Zulu action shotgun style. We could not understand how he could have such a drastically different experience than I had. We ultimately figured out that the choke threaded into his barrel differently than mine and not in a good way. We also determined that his gun mounted differently and that we needed to mount a sight of a different height onto his shotgun to help with the sight alignment. Once we got those bugs ironed out he was back to his usual success rate.
I have used everything from a Mossberg Maverick 88, to a Mossberg 500, Mossberg 535, Mossberg 835, Remington 870, Remington 1100’s and even single shot breech loading shotguns. I had to pattern each one and find which specific loads and choke combinations worked. Some were even temperamental about brands.
870SuperMag_81062 by Jason Mosler, on Flickr
I have had success with Federal in some guns while others liked Remingtons. Fiocchi and even handloads met with mixed success.
Like I said when we started this discussion, you will have to adjust your stand set up to be successful with a shotgun. You are not going to be able to put your call out at 200 yards and score fur with a shotgun. The closer you pull the predators to you the more likely that you could be discovered. How you set your stands becomes critical. But I have had a LOT of success with a shotgun. I don’t mind getting up close and personal with the predators that I hunt. I am comfortable getting them 20-60 yards. I know that I can be still and can work my call and the terrain to get the predator where I need them to go. Now some predator hunters will just NOT be comfortable getting predators in shotgun range. It’s not for everyone. It takes quite a bit of patience, consciousness of scent and wind, a firm understanding of predator behavior in order to predict what your target is going to do.
But ask any predator hunter who is successful using a shotgun in taking predators and they will often tell you that there is a great feeling of accomplishment when you get fur on the ground.
54337_500_20ga_tky_22inch_greenleaf_2700x650 by Jason Mosler, on Flickr
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GC
Well-known member
I hate to say I told you so, but... LOL. On a serious note, I don't think there are a lot of hard and fast rules on this stuff. I do think there are some pretty good, well-established guidelines that usually work pretty well. A guy just has to do a little research to get started, then see what works best for him.
hunt0168
Well-known member
I completely agree. It’s not often that my shotguns get out for coyotes anymore, but I have done a ton of choke and load testing. I have settled on the Winchester Varmint-X BB load that uses the Shot-Loc buffering. Best patterning Lead loads by a good margin in my guns.
I would love to see BBB or T using the same buffer. With the price of Tungsten now, I think Winchester would do well with such a load. Honestly, any ammo manufacturer would probably do well with whatever buffer they chose!
Jason93518
New member
Have you ever used 3 1/2”?
derbyacresbob
Well-known member
I don't like the cost or recoil of 12 ga 3-1/2" shells. With 15g/cc Tungsten alloy shot and TSS 18g/cc shot I can reload 2-3/4" and 3" shells with 1-1/4 oz or 1-1/2 oz of shot with great results on coyotes.
I really liked the Remington Wingmaster HD 3" 1-1/2 oz BB loads for coyotes they had right at 70 pellets per shell. Look below at how a 2-3/4" 1-1/4 oz TSS #4 shot load compares to the heavier factory load of Rem HD BB 12g/cc shot.
From KPY Shotshell Ballistics
1300 fps 1-1/2 oz load of Rem HD BB shot has about 70 pellets per shell and gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 62.4 yards.
1300 fps 1-1/4 oz load of 18g/cc TSS #4 shot has about 104 pellets per shell and gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 78.9 yards.
The TSS #4 shot load with 1/4 oz less shot has 46.47% more pellets than the Rem HD BB load and the smaller TSS pellets #4 shot get 26.4 % more penetration range than the bigger HD BB pellets.
I really liked the Remington Wingmaster HD 3" 1-1/2 oz BB loads for coyotes they had right at 70 pellets per shell. Look below at how a 2-3/4" 1-1/4 oz TSS #4 shot load compares to the heavier factory load of Rem HD BB 12g/cc shot.
From KPY Shotshell Ballistics
1300 fps 1-1/2 oz load of Rem HD BB shot has about 70 pellets per shell and gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 62.4 yards.
1300 fps 1-1/4 oz load of 18g/cc TSS #4 shot has about 104 pellets per shell and gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 78.9 yards.
The TSS #4 shot load with 1/4 oz less shot has 46.47% more pellets than the Rem HD BB load and the smaller TSS pellets #4 shot get 26.4 % more penetration range than the bigger HD BB pellets.
My personal experience using buffered Buckshot vs non-buffered Buck. My shot groupings were quite a bit tighter using buffered. Which assisted me in making longer kill shots. Sneaking in on a sleeper/bedded coyote. If the ground or snow cover was noisy. 1st shell in the chamber was buffered 3Buck. Most often I used buffered 4Buck. 4Buck on coyotes did well for me. 3Buck is a freight train of energy. Downside between the two is the lesser amount of pellets of 3Buck.
There is a word in the medical field called, "Agglutination". It refers to the crowding of blood cells in a vein. So the blood cell flow is reduced due to that resistance/crowding.
I view shotgun & shot size doing very similar. I've read a lot over the years on shotguns & shot size, ect. Some "experts" have claimed. That deformation of lead shot in to tight of barrel. Can deform pellets, thus making a shotgun pattern. Not be as accurate or as tight of a grouping. IMO, buffering reduces that crowding. Giving the shooter a more accurate & consistent grouping.
I view shotgun & shot size doing very similar. I've read a lot over the years on shotguns & shot size, ect. Some "experts" have claimed. That deformation of lead shot in to tight of barrel. Can deform pellets, thus making a shotgun pattern. Not be as accurate or as tight of a grouping. IMO, buffering reduces that crowding. Giving the shooter a more accurate & consistent grouping.