.17 cal Z max bullets on sale

I bought 500 of these in 32gr for my .204. Didn’t shoot the same as the 32gr Vmaxs. I sold 300 of the 500. I was told they are the same as a Vmax, but after much experimenting, I think they are “dressed up” seconds. Some people swear by them, which is great. My recipe for the .204 and 32gr Vmaxs didn’t shoot the zmaxs the same at all. Hopefully you have a better experience with them.
 
Originally Posted By: AcroninI bought 500 of these in 32gr for my .204. Didn’t shoot the same as the 32gr Vmaxs. I sold 300 of the 500. I was told they are the same as a Vmax, but after much experimenting, I think they are “dressed up” seconds. Some people swear by them, which is great. My recipe for the .204 and 32gr Vmaxs didn’t shoot the zmaxs the same at all. Hopefully you have a better experience with them.

The only Zmax bullets that I have tried were the 50 grain .224 ones. They shot just fine in my .223, .223 AI and my .220 Swift. I will be disappointed if the .172" ones do not shoot well in my .17 Rem and .17 HH. Someone very much in the know told me that the Zmax bullets do not have the quality control of the Vmax. All I know is that so far so good with them for me. I dont remember if I have tried the .204 ones or not. I think I would have remembered if they really sucked though.
 
They've all shot very well for me, maybe there is a flier or two more, idk. But for the price difference I can accept that for pdog bullets. It doesn't make sense that they're blems since they couldn't change tip color unless they are press set-up runs, which Hdy does sell as blems. If I lived closer to Grand Island I would be stopping in all the time to see what they had for sale as blems. I've bought 6mm vmax for under $6 a box and they shoot just fine.
 
Here's a recent thread from Dirty Hippy that shows bullet cross sections of both V-Max and Z-Max. I'm not implying what you're saying isn't true, simply that by appearance they appear the same to me. Whether or not they shoot the same, I guess I will eventually find out as I have some 50g Z-Max in .224 that I plan to load.
 
The bean counters run companies, and they are controlling the production figured to the .01 of a cent.

Quality control costs money, that is what you are paying for with the std V max.

Try checking the variations in ogive lengths over 100 bullets of each. Apperarance does not tell you much when you are talking about controlling variations in the .001, jacket run out, core seating, quality of the tips can be huge, etc.

Hornady is NOT going to tell you that they make a bad bullet.

For shooting squirrels at 125 yds, don't know if you would know the difference, but jack the RPM's up to the neighborhood of where 4000 fps is, variations show up in spades, especially at some yardage.

The smaller in bullet dia you get, the smaller the variations will translate to problems.

Look very closely at the V max and Z max cores in the pictures with the sectioned bullets.
 
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Originally Posted By: pahntr760Lot to lot variance is likely to blame for the issue here. ZMax are VMax...call Hornady to confirm if you wish.

or email them.

they're the same thing with a different color tip. a "zmax" is either a sst, a vmax, or an AMAX depending on the bullet design that the tip is changed on. Sometimes a "VMAX" is even a SST (Hornady #3142g private labeled by graff's is one example of this - again confirmed direct from hornady that its the same design)

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Originally Posted By: ackleymanThe bean counters run companies, and they are controlling the production figured to the .01 of a cent.

Quality control costs money, that is what you are paying for with the std V max.

i'm calling a HUGE bs card here.

Hornady has been making different colored tips for their bullets FOR YEARS now. at least as long as the 17hmr has been out there - since every poly tipped bullet stuffed into a 17hmr case was a vmax bullet with different tip colors from the day CCI started filling orders and private labeling them for whichever company wanted their label on them - including HORNADY!

the "ZMAX" line is purely 100% a marketing sthick not a "lets lie to our customers about our QC" issue - or lack of QC issue. its a pretty label on the box to take advantage of the "zombie outbreak prepper" craze when they released it. they didnt change ANYTHING other than the wrapper and the tip colors. as with any product bad lots happen and every once in a while one gets out in the wild.



otherwise for a group of beancounters who are supposedly chasing every 1/10th of 1/10th of 1% the bottom line - they're wasting a LOT of freaking labor dollars and machine time pulling red tips to put green ones in just to not sell them as "blems" or "seconds".

because wasting machine time, spending twice as much on part of the components necessary for assembly (two tips for every bullet sold and not just one) and labor to sell a product for less than full retail makes every bean counter happy.
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the QC issue lots are what they use Midway USA (and midsouth, etc) for - getting rid of the so-so jacket lots, not totally inserted tips, and cosmetic blems.
 
I’ve been to the Hornady plant dozens of times to buy Seconds. I grew up 30
Miles from it. I know they say they are the same. I think they are right in that they are of the same construction, but they aren’t the same bullet from the same presses with the same tolerances etc.

Search other forums on the topic. Some people swear by them, others like me say they don’t shoot anywhere near the same as a Vmax. IM NOT SAYING THEY WONT SHOOT WELL. But using the EXACT same recipe for a PROVEN load, it wouldn’t come close to the same group. I’ve tried several times thinking it was me, or the gun was fouled, etc. they wouldn’t shoot.

My experience only, others may vary.
 
Plant One, your response, "otherwise for a group of beancounters who are supposedly chasing every 1/10th of 1/10th of 1% the bottom line - they're wasting a LOT of freaking labor dollars and machine time pulling red tips to put green ones in just to not sell them as "blems" or "seconds".

Bean counters peruse a lot more than 1/10 of 1% of the bottom line!

Pulling red tips and installing green tips......weird concept, I never mentioned anything like that. I don't think that you have the first clue about how bullets are made in a production setting or bench rest shooters that make their own bullets with carbide dies.

When jackets are ordered or Made, they are made by Grade with a various +/- in uniformity. Lead wire used to make the cores are ordered with certain amount of antimony or Tin and has to be checked for hardness, this lead wire comes in grades also. I would bet that jackets the cheaper lines are being imported from out of the country, while higher priced products are produced in house.

Jacket uniformity, core seating depth, constant QC checking is what costs money.

To sell a "loss leader", cost are cut somewhere. If you had known many people in the gun industry, you would know this. After all, the Z are not target bullets. Concentric jacket uniformity is measured in the .0001, how do you expect to see even .005 on a bullet cut away?

The way to tell the difference is to in a measure the ogive lengths over a given lot#, then compare them to other lot# also.

With the cost difference, the Z max sure do make good short range bullets. Since the bullet is the cheapest part of the whole hunting trip, why not invest in yourself and buy a good bullet for longer range shooting. Makes you wonder why they are not making z max bullets in 6mm, 87g,105, 6.5 various weights, 30 caliber 150,165,180g Z max would sell like a house a fire....

Hornady is not about to tell you it's priority secrets, so you can forget that. The Z Max is not a target bullet, what they would tell you and not to expect target accuracy of their A max and ELD lines.

So, with all these sales on Z max bullets so cheap, you have to wonder what is the distributor cost? You never see the V max bullets anywhere near as cheap as the Z max, lower cost = lower sales price...costs have to be cut somewhere...we will never know. If the bullet shoots good enough for you, great.

I am looking for minus 3/8" groups in my varmint rifles preferably less than .250.

There has been a couple of times through the years that shooters has got OFF brand premium products at a serious discount:

Speer TNT bullets of all calibers, serious accuracy
IMI brass-plant built in Israel by Lapua
Tula, Wolf, PMC primers-Russian imports

I am done with this thread.
 
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Hornady-reg-Z-MAX-Zombie-Rifle-Bullets/1330008.uts


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168 zmax = 168 AMAX with a green tip.

i origionally found them as loaded ammo and was having trouble with them showing pressure signs in my LR308 carbine. after sending 6 boxes back to hornady for testing - per THEIR request when they saw the brass pics with the extractor and ejector swipes - they all pressure tested to spec and we deteremined it was an overgassing issue. They replaced with 168gr amax match, and i was personally informed over the phone that they were the EXACT same ammo. Same primer/powder/brass/bullet and loaded to the same pressure specs. Just a green tip and a fancy wrapper.

not surprising i had the same signs from the match ammo too.

but hey - hornady loves to lie to their customers to make them feel happy i guess.

so i'll just go back to being fat, dumb and happy shooting my inferior bullets.
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unfortunatly i no longer have the actual written report that was shipped to me with the ammo.
 
Originally Posted By: 6724I have run the 20gr vmax and the 20gr zmax in my 17 hornet. I have never noticed any difference in accuracy.

That's good to know. Thanks.

Got a particular load that you like with these little pills? I'm still playing with mine.
 
Ditto, they are identical.... Quality. I have a 17 AH.


Originally Posted By: 6724I have run the 20gr vmax and the 20gr zmax in my 17 hornet. I have never noticed any difference in accuracy.
 


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