17 HMR And How Finicky It Can Get With Ammo

W

woodguru

New member
When the 17 Hummer first came out for a couple of years there was a lot of controversy about ammo quality control and rifles that were tack drivers and ones that were so so at best.

I had the incident with one of the first ones I got, a Savage Varmint barrel. The first one wouldn't shoot worth a darn while the Anschutz I got within a couple of weeks shot 1/4 inch groups with an occasional flyer of half an inch.

I ordered every single type of ammo I could find for it, 14 total at the time I did it. I lost track of how many rifles, but I know I ordered over 20 rimfire rifles in a few months. I bought the scopes from the same distributor and tried a lot of excellent ones that I got a great price on. The Savage rep told the store manager to give me a new one and that one held a half an inch easily with the ammo it liked.

I got way beyond obsessive with it, and some of the things I found out added to certain frustrations. Many people perhaps don't care as they buy a rifle and whatever it does is good enough, but if you like to get the best in accuracy so you can make outside of the envelope shots more consistently, there are a couple of things here to help you do just that.

The first interesting thing is what happens during a break in period, and what happens when you clean, and clean copper fouling.

After cleaning it takes some settle in shots to get it shooting it's best groups. But beyond that if you are starting with a barrel that has no copper fouling it can take as many as 200 shots or so for the barrel to tighten up with some copper and the groups get better and better as this happens. On one of the rimfire sites people had noticed the same thing, that after cleaning copper fouling their rifles wouldn't hold as good a group.

As I would switch from one type of ammo to another, the first shots wouldn't be nearly as tight as they would get after shooting at least five to ten settle in shots. I have no idea what the explanation for this would be, I know I saw it over and over again
with different ammo in different rifles. I figure the tiny bore just makes it a super sensitive round to differences that non't make much difference in anything else.

The best advice I can give to anyone who wants to get the best out of their HMR would be to see what ammo is available to you, and buy one box of each.Get out to a range or bench environment and run what you have through it's paces. You will be surprized if you haven't already seen it that one ammo will shoot out like two inches or more while another has no problem holding 3/4's of an inch. Then order a bunch of what your rifle likes.

I don't even know if it's still available, but the two that shot well in everything were Remingtom Premium and Winchester Premium. Not the cheapest, just shot good in everything. None of my rifles except a couple seemed to like Hornady, and that may have changed as this was six years or so ago and they may have made manufacturing changes in response. Sellier and Bellot was another ammo that shot really well in most rifles.

I have several thousand rounds of older ammo, and I can see what my new CZ Varmint likes, but I figure I will have to get what's now available (it's all different) to see what it likes when I have to buy some more.

I hope this gives some guys tips that help contribute to better accuracy. It's funny but leave that copper fouling alone until you notice deteriorating groups.

One of the factors that had me shooting thousands of rounds and wanting the best accuracy possible was ground squirrel shooting. In my experience 200yd+ shots on a 2 inch wide squirrel are not nearly as consistent if the rifle can't easily shoot a half inch group. I had a friend that was getting frustrated when he couldn't make a 200 yard shot to save his soul, while I was popping them right and left. I swapped rifles and he had no problems with hitting them way more frequently. So he asks me how much is this rifle, I laughed and told him the scope was more than his rifle and scope (it was an Anschutz 1517 MPR with an Elite 4200 8-32x).

Funny thing I did to him, we were having an informal little competition shooting .45 cases at 100 yards with my Anschutz. I had the ammo it liked best and I gave Larry a box of CCI FMJ that shot 2 inch groups. He had one magazine that he'd load from his box while I was shooting, and I'd pass the rifle over to him when it was empty and I'd load a mag with good ammo. Meanwhile as he's whining and making excuses I'm telling him I'd always told him I was a way better shot. It had it's humor
 
Last edited:
Any brand name that had a 17gr Vmax shot the same for me. They should have ,all was made by the same place, atleast the ones I tried..hint
 
It's a rim fire go out and have fun with it !! No matter what you try it's still a rim fire you can't reload it it is what it is!
 
The only difference in my rifle was it shot a little higher with CCI TNT Hollowpoints than with V-Max. I haven't ever seen an inaccurate .17hmr as far as accuracy goes. I've never heard of such a thing come to think of it.
 
ya i'm not much of a fan of the 200 pack box. if you catch a bad lot - you just paid $50+ for sub standard ammo.

at least buyin them by the 50 box you were only out $10-$12 or so if you catch a garbage lot number.

and packing one of those 200 round boxes into the field with you, they're not very friendly to being hauled around in your pocket. again a place the 50 round packs really excell. being able to slide the cover open just enough and knock 5-10 rounds out at a time vs opening a box top and possibly spilling 200 rounds of ammo on the ground if you fumble... ya not so much.
 
Originally Posted By: marcoIt's a rim fire go out and have fun with it !! No matter what you try it's still a rim fire you can't reload it it is what it is! Ehhh, idk about .17 HMR or any of the other rimfires... but you can reload .22 lr
 
Last edited:
Yep Cooper.

I buy ammo a brick at a time, been through thousands and thousands of rounds in 2 rifles.They all shot good, cept for 1 lot of old stuff that had brittle necks. Hornady replaced them for me.
 
Originally Posted By: Plant.Oneya i'm not much of a fan of the 200 pack box. if you catch a bad lot - you just paid $50+ for sub standard ammo.

at least buyin them by the 50 box you were only out $10-$12 or so if you catch a garbage lot number.

and packing one of those 200 round boxes into the field with you, they're not very friendly to being hauled around in your pocket. again a place the 50 round packs really excell. being able to slide the cover open just enough and knock 5-10 rounds out at a time vs opening a box top and possibly spilling 200 rounds of ammo on the ground if you fumble... ya not so much.

I got some really nice wallet type packs that hold 30 in 3 rows of 10, two of those and a couple of magazines is generally enough when I'm hunting squirrels, they fit in any pocket and the bullets sit with the tips angled just enough to be able to take them out really easily. They are made by MTM (Case Guard 30) and they work for .22's or HM2's as well.

You think it's bad lots? I was sort of thinking that when the Hornady I got 2500 rounds of didn't shoot well in anything, but other people were saying that the Hornady they'd got shot fine in their rifles, then the last Hornady I got is good in my CZ.

I have access to some property for shooting squirrels where my longest shots are 125 yards, and most are 50 to 75. I use up the ammo that doesn't hold quite as good a group and find that it doesn't matter as far as not missing. Center body mass eviscerates 'em. In fact I take my Model 597 .22 as well for faster followups and can get doubles when two are out. I get a kick out of ripping the semi auto at several squirrels that venture out at the same time.
 
Quote:You think it's bad lots? I was sort of thinking that when the Hornady I got 2500 rounds of didn't shoot well in anything, but other people were saying that the Hornady they'd got shot fine in their rifles, then the last Hornady I got is good in my CZ.

i can just about carve that in stone for you. for a VERY long time - before winchester pulled its 17hmr ammo from the CCI production lines - we used to get sometimes 3-5 folks a week over on the 17hmr forum complaining about accuracy issues. Now that rimfire ammo is just comign back on the shelves in the last 6-8 months those posts have gone down significantly, but i think thats more of a fault of the ammo just not being there than it is of the production quality being that much improved.

that post i made in the other 17hmr thread regarding doing lot testing to find out what your gun likes... i used to almost have that on copy/paste readiness to help new 17hmr owners out who were frustrated with the crap for accuracy they were seeing. bad lots could easily go 3 MOA in many rifles. aint much squirrel shooting to be had with ammo that only groups 3 MOA.

sure enough, do a lot number test with multiple boxes and all the sudden one would shine and you'd have a 1-1¼ MOA capable gun again.


higher end rifles seem to be less susceptable to the issue - annie's, coopers - maybe the cut their bores a bit tighter or something. Savages, henry's, marlins, rugers, remington's all seemed to face the issue on a regular basis.

and the same would hold true if the bore was dirty or clean - and not just in my rifle. bad lots just threw flyers.

my savage is one of the "dirty girl" rifles that wouldn't shoot after a major cleaning. I used to save my bad "test lot" ammo boxes to foul the barrel after a big cleaning, and then once th barrel settled back in (usually 25-50 rounds) not do more than basic cleaning until accuracy fell off again - in my savage 93 this was usually somewhere between 600-800 rounds give or take. maybe a brush here and there, but usually just some rem oil and the bore snake. but no solvents until my good MOA capable lot number opened up and wouldnt shoot anymore.


we even tried to get CCI to make a match grade 17hmr vmax load. they said if there was enough interest they'd be game for it. had it on a half dozen forums and i think we got 30 signatures on the petition. this was pre-sandy hook. with that few sigs we never bothered to even submit the petition to CCI. I would happily pay $20 ish a box for a match load of 17hmr. really its match grade ammo - or the distinct lack of - is whats kept the 17hmr out of the rimfire competition world. its just so out-classed by the 22lr world that its not even worth your time to show up to try to compete with one.
 
Dang I must have got lucky, My Marlin and Cooper both shoot wicked good. Better than any 22lr I've sat behind.

Shooting sage rats at 200 yards just makes me giggle...

Having shot atleast 5 different Marlins , a Savage, a Ruger ,a Rem, and a Cooper all in 17 HMR. The worst of the bunch was the Rem, followed up by the Ruger.
 
sounds to me - based on years of reading about this issue - that you need to buy a lotto ticket :p


as i said - its possible that the QC issues may have corrected itself now that ammo production is coming back up.... i haven't had to buy HMR ammo for a while now - i found a couple of the good lots and stacked it deep when it was plentiful a few years back.

i'm still settling my new A17 in and have yet to shoot it on a calm day to really get a feel for its accuracy potential. I was getting about 2-2½ moa out of the A17 box i have on the shelf, but that was bucking some pretty serious wind. It did seem to be happier with the 2550 box i had here from one of my cherry picked lot numbers outa the stash, but again thats still very subjective based on limited testing so far in less than ideal conditions. 15-25 mph isnt conducive to good group testing with the HMR even if you're trying to time between the gusts.
 
Originally Posted By: Plant.OneQuote:You think it's bad lots? I was sort of thinking that when the Hornady I got 2500 rounds of didn't shoot well in anything, but other people were saying that the Hornady they'd got shot fine in their rifles, then the last Hornady I got is good in my CZ.

i can just about carve that in stone for you. for a VERY long time - before winchester pulled its 17hmr ammo from the CCI production lines - we used to get sometimes 3-5 folks a week over on the 17hmr forum complaining about accuracy issues. Now that rimfire ammo is just comign back on the shelves in the last 6-8 months those posts have gone down significantly, but i think thats more of a fault of the ammo just not being there than it is of the production quality being that much improved.

that post i made in the other 17hmr thread regarding doing lot testing to find out what your gun likes... i used to almost have that on copy/paste readiness to help new 17hmr owners out who were frustrated with the crap for accuracy they were seeing. bad lots could easily go 3 MOA in many rifles. aint much squirrel shooting to be had with ammo that only groups 3 MOA.

sure enough, do a lot number test with multiple boxes and all the sudden one would shine and you'd have a 1-1¼ MOA capable gun again.


higher end rifles seem to be less susceptable to the issue - annie's, coopers - maybe the cut their bores a bit tighter or something. Savages, henry's, marlins, rugers, remington's all seemed to face the issue on a regular basis.

and the same would hold true if the bore was dirty or clean - and not just in my rifle. bad lots just threw flyers.

my savage is one of the "dirty girl" rifles that wouldn't shoot after a major cleaning. I used to save my bad "test lot" ammo boxes to foul the barrel after a big cleaning, and then once th barrel settled back in (usually 25-50 rounds) not do more than basic cleaning until accuracy fell off again - in my savage 93 this was usually somewhere between 600-800 rounds give or take. maybe a brush here and there, but usually just some rem oil and the bore snake. but no solvents until my good MOA capable lot number opened up and wouldnt shoot anymore.


we even tried to get CCI to make a match grade 17hmr vmax load. they said if there was enough interest they'd be game for it. had it on a half dozen forums and i think we got 30 signatures on the petition. this was pre-sandy hook. with that few sigs we never bothered to even submit the petition to CCI. I would happily pay $20 ish a box for a match load of 17hmr. really its match grade ammo - or the distinct lack of - is whats kept the 17hmr out of the rimfire competition world. its just so out-classed by the 22lr world that its not even worth your time to show up to try to compete with one.

I had a Savage that was the same way, it took about 200 rounds to get it shooting right, then that was good for over a brick before deteriorating.

I cleaned the copper out, shot it until it was shooting it's best, then treated it with microlon figuring it would preserve the level of fouling, and it seemed to work. The copper didn't have any additional build up, and I never had to clean the copper over the next couple of thousand rounds. I sold that to a friend when I got the Annie, that became my main HMR squeeze.
 
if i had and annie or a cooper, i doubt i'd spend much time behind a stock cabbage either.

two whole different worlds of rifles.


i wouldn't expect any $200-$300 rifle to perform like a $1500-$3000 rifle. as such small changes in ammo quality could easily see dramatic performance differences between the two classes of firearm.

or at least explain why the lower price point types of rifles may well be lot dependant on their ammo selection for accuracy.
 
Originally Posted By: Plant.One

i'm still settling my new A17 in and have yet to shoot it on a calm day to really get a feel for its accuracy potential. I was getting about 2-2½ moa out of the A17 box i have on the shelf, but that was bucking some pretty serious wind. It did seem to be happier with the 2550 box i had here from one of my cherry picked lot numbers outa the stash, but again thats still very subjective based on limited testing so far in less than ideal conditions. 15-25 mph isnt conducive to good group testing with the HMR even if you're trying to time between the gusts.

I had the same experience. Regular Hdy 17gr vmax shoots way better in my A17 than the CCI a17 load.
 


Write your reply...
Back
Top