17 HMR vrs. .22 LR for short range coyotes.

S

Savage_99

New member
The state of CT just allowed the 17 HMR for use in state forests. Up to then the most powerful rifle was the .22 LR.

What would kill a coyote better, a 17 HMR or a .22 LR Velocitor? The ranges are usual woods ranges to 100 yds but usually less.
 
I would not use either as a 1st choice, but if necessary would limit range to as close as possible and probably go with the velocitor and its gold dot bullet. Less than 50 yards and preferably closer. I imagine with either of these unless very close and right in the head or heart lungs you will have a runner, and may never recover the animal. Coyotes can take a lot of lead! The Hmr probably the same deal. At these ranges I would use a shotgun. MH
 
Howdy!
This is a well documented can of worms as subjects go but will keep it as a clinical analysis. Either will kill but are not as ideal as one would hope however "speed kills" and the .17 has my vote for this situation with the heavier loadings and tougher constructed bullets i.e. hornady 20 gr. gamepoint (I think). keep the shots low in the neck but above the shoulder blade (if you can) or if you feel you have the oppurtunity take'em in the head as the round is fully capable of that kind of accuracy and as a side, have not been able to get that kind of performance out of the velociraptors consistantly as yet myself. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
nuff said,
ninjaDave
 
It's kinda bad when a state can tell you what caliber you can shoot. The law makers are obviously not hunters and don't have a clue if what you are saying is true. Your telling us you have to shoot deer, coyotes what ever with a 17 caliber on state land and before that was a 22 LR? I'm lost, please explane.
 
In my opinion, speed does not kill without penetration. The slower moving, much heavier Velocitor, will penetrate deeper, with a much larger wound channel. If the HMR hits a rib or shoulder, it will most likely shatter on the surface. Even on the CCI website, they rate the Velocitor for game, up to coyote size. Even the 20gr. 17hmr is only for small game. This is the opinion from the manufacturer of both. Personally, I would use a 22WMR (40gr. Winchester HP), if I had to use a rimfire. With even that (22Mag), I would limit my range to 75yrds. By the way, there is no such thing as perfect shot placement,w/o luck. You may even hit exactly where you want, and hit a rib. There are way too many variables involved, ie: wind, breeze, twigs, animal movement, your movement, etc.

A shotgun would probably be best at close range, in CT.
 
Will try to keep this from turning into the typical flame war...but Pecci...do you have a .17 hmr? If so, do you have any experience with killing coyotes with said .17 hmr?

In my experience ribs are not even close to being a factor, i've done quartering away, it was my biggest entrance to date on a coyote, 90 yrd shot, entrance was about 1.5" long, still went in and did the lungs in, coyote did a typical lung hit runner of about 40-50 yrds. Broadside double lungs i've done quite a few of, most i have described in the thread i linked too.

I replied to that thread my own experiences with the .17 hmr, as they were kind of talking that the .17 grain hornady bullet would splash up close due to velocity and be better suited to 75-125 yrd shots. I agreed with them on the 75-125 yrd in the ribcage as ideal shots. One in particular was a 2 yr old 28 lb male i shot at 100 yrds broadside with the .17 gr v-max, pinhole entrance and upon skinning the dog there was a 4-5" circular blob of black jello just under the hide on the opposite side...no exit.

In fact i posted replies because i did not agree with the 'splash on entrance' theory on the close in shots. My two closest broadsides between 40 and 50 yrds both resulted in exits, the closer the dog, the larger the exit. My closest was no small dog either, large mature male at 43 yrds and about 1/2" exit wound. You'll see pics in the above mentioned thread link also.

Anyhow, thats just been my experience, i've only used the 17 grain hornady v-max. Both magnums would still be prefered over the .22 lr imo. I think one will have as much trouble with a shoulder as the other. I think the differences are so little between the two as to be moot...for this application.

B
 
Without a doubt the .17 HMR is the best choice of the two. I've shot piles of ground squirrels,rockchucks, and a number of skunks and badgers with both rimfires. The HMR is superior to the .22 rimfire because of its accuracy and velocity. I do much of the time use the Velocitors for my choice of .22 rf ammo but it can't compare to the HMR. You might give the 20 grain HMR ammo a try for coyotes.
 
B - Why would it make any difference, whether or not I have an HMR? If I did have an HMR, I wouldn't shoot at coyotes with it. I do have a couple of friends and other aquaintances, that do. Some have tried the HMR on ground squirrels, with disappointing results. in fairness, a few say it does just fine. However, we're talking about a 2lb. animal. A 40lb. yote is 20 X larger. I don't doubt your stories, but I don't doubt my friends, either. They have no reason to lie about that. It's hard to admit your new rifle was maybe a wrong choice. So I believe them. The fact is the hummer was never intended for coyotes. For every hunter, that says the .17hmr has been successful on coyotes, I can find just as many, that say it wasn't, even on smaller animals. That's not good enough for me. I believe in humane kills. My ethics and responsibilities, as an outdoorsman are high, and I believe rightfully so.

For the original poster, you can find out plenty more at RFC. Just do a search. It's a constant topic. The debate will never end. I strongly believe, however, that using innadequate calibers on game animals, only provides fuel for the anti's. No hard feelings to anyone, intended. Just my honest thoughts. By the way, I'm not advocating any rimfire for coyotes.
 
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A 12 guage with a rifled barrel and slugs coupled to a scope can be a decently accurate gun to 100 yards and it without a doubt will leave a better impression on the coyote's.If that is an option
 
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I got a laugh out of that quote too, wrongtarget! Great pic!

I figure I've killed between 600-800 ground squirrels so far this spring with the 17 HMR and I think its fantastic on ground squirrels. I went squirrel shooting a couple of weeks ago with two buddies and let each buddy shoot a box of fifty at squirrels. After a few shots they were giggling like a couple of girls and having a blast. Needless to say they both in the process of getting HMR's!
 
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B - Why would it make any difference, whether or not I have an HMR? If I did have an HMR, I wouldn't shoot at coyotes with it. I do have a couple of friends and other aquaintances, that do. Some have tried the HMR on ground squirrels, with disappointing results. in fairness, a few say it does just fine.



Pecci, i have no problem with opinions, you have yours. I have mine, i also have mine with some experience behind it. Not just the same old..."i know a guy who's brother's uncle billy bob's buddy had one and said it sucked bum".... Get my point? You don't have to shoot coyotes with an hmr...even if you had one. You could if you wanted though. For those you know who figure the hmr is dissappointing on ground squirrels /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif, are they not happy unless they hit it with a rocket launcher or something? I mean...how much 'red mist' do some guys need? They must think a .22lr is like an airgun and only good for plinkin cans? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Anyhow, i didn't want this to go down the typical flame road. I've been very clear on the fact i don't think the .17 hmr is a good all round coyote round. So we agree on that. However, you can run, you can hide, still doesn't change the fact that the little bugger kills em perdy dang good in certain applications and its prolly never gonna stop. Suppose your against bowhunting then? Everything has its limits, learn them, including your own, and voila. Dead coyotes with .17 hmr if need be, or dead whitetails with bow and arrow, or dead ground squirrels with rocket launcher...whatever. Can't deny the facts. If one had to choose a rimfire in which to dispatch a coyote...my own opinion is .17 hmr is best.

You figured a rib on a coyote would stop a .17 hmr(splash/whatever). That was opinion only. I happened to have some experience with that and would lay money down because of it...that a coyote rib will not stop a .17 hmr to, at the very least, 150 yrds, prolly quite a bit further to boot.

Many people will, and do, also have the opinion that it is a lousy coyote round. I agree. Read all the posts. Remember, i do most of mine with .243. I'm gonna get some with the bow eventually also...limits to all of em. No hard feelins on the 'rib' issue, my 'opinion is different only because i've actually shot a bunch in the ribs to give me that opinion.

B
 
Wrongtarget - First of all, I didn't realize I had a reputation. Thanks for the complement. I guess it's better to have and have lost, than never to have at all. Second of all, those weren't my comments, they came from friends & others I met at the range, that have hmr's. You can also go to Rimfirecentral, and read about poor experiences with the hmr. None of those will be my comments either.

I knew I should have kept my mouth shut on this one.
 
Everyone gets their turn in the barrel sooner or later, guess it was your turn....FWIW, I haven't shot a yote with any of my Hmrs, but I have shot lots of ground squirrels, big fat ones, too, the california, not the belding's.....I know what the hmr does to em, both the Vmax and the TNT hp, the Vmax can really tear em up, the TNT to a lesser degree, your mistake was passing info along that you didn't know to be fact. How many times has a caliber been blamed for lost game when in fact, poor shot placement or even a miss was the real cause?
 


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