1911
- Thread starter big_10
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gary paugh
New member
springfield or 70 series colt.
Gary
Gary
They are both fine weapons. I would say the kimber is prob a slightly better made gun but the price reflects that also. Tghe best way to decide is to go to a store and handle both. Let your hands decide. which one is comfortable. pick a target on the wall and look at it, close both eyes and point the gun at it with your eyes closed. open both eyes and see which gun is pointed at the spot. Your best shooting will be with a pistol that naturally points where you want it to. Being that both are of the 1911 variety, there will not be much difference in design. weight and balance should make up your mind.
bgoldhunter
New member
Between the two you have chosen I would go with a Kimber...but you may want to look at Springfield again, IMO a better gun for the money.
GC
Well-known member
Kimber, Colt, Springfield, Sig, and S&W all make excellent factory production 1911 pistols. I've owned or shot all but the new Sig, I would expect the Sig to be topnotch as every Sig pistol I've ever owned or shot has been. I think Kimber gives you the most features for the dollar. New Colt's are some of the best 1911's that company has produced for quite a few years. I'm thinking real hard about the new Colt's Gunsight Pistol to go along with the two Kimbers and old Colt National Match Gold Cup I currently have. Springfield leaves me cold. But a proper 1911 .45 ACP pistol is a joy to own and shoot. A good resource for you might be to look over at www.1911forums.com and search some of the archives there.
Big 10,
I would have to say if you are going to carry it on a regular basis I would look at two things 1)weight and 2)size. The Scandium S&W is such a bitchen little gun IMO. But a Kimber Ultra cdp is smaller and weights the same. As for full size I don't think I would look anywhere other than Kimber. 1911's are all they do (pistol wise) and there reputation reflects that. When I bought my Ultra CDP a few friends of mine bought Springfields. One was a 4" barrel and one a 3.5". These pistols were nowhere near as nice in terms of overall fit and finish. The 4" Springfield was an embarassment. It is up for sale with only a few rounds through it.
The guy that got the 3.5" decided to have a smith go through it and slick up the action and do a few other mods to get it to behave more like a good 1911 should. All the while I am sitting here with a big grin on my face because I spent the extra dough in the first place and didn't have to go through all the hassle. I vote Kimber unless you are looking at a 4" commander for carry. Good Luck!
I would have to say if you are going to carry it on a regular basis I would look at two things 1)weight and 2)size. The Scandium S&W is such a bitchen little gun IMO. But a Kimber Ultra cdp is smaller and weights the same. As for full size I don't think I would look anywhere other than Kimber. 1911's are all they do (pistol wise) and there reputation reflects that. When I bought my Ultra CDP a few friends of mine bought Springfields. One was a 4" barrel and one a 3.5". These pistols were nowhere near as nice in terms of overall fit and finish. The 4" Springfield was an embarassment. It is up for sale with only a few rounds through it.
The guy that got the 3.5" decided to have a smith go through it and slick up the action and do a few other mods to get it to behave more like a good 1911 should. All the while I am sitting here with a big grin on my face because I spent the extra dough in the first place and didn't have to go through all the hassle. I vote Kimber unless you are looking at a 4" commander for carry. Good Luck!
hoosierdaddy
New member
The S&W is a totally kick aXe pistol! I know several shooters who have bought them and no one has any complaints. Kimber's Series II safety is a MIM part that is prone to failure. Additionally, I have heard of quite a few NIB Kimbers needing a trip back to the factory to run correctly as of late.
Here are a couple pics of Kimbers POS firing pin block. I think the Brady's must have designed it!
Before
After 17 rounds from a brand new Kimber TLE II. Let the Kimber fanatics argue with that. This is not a fluke by any means. It happens all too often and once it does the pistol CANNOT be fired as the spring is between the top of the slide and the FPB pushing the block down on the firing pin. The plunger moves the FPB up when the grip safety is pressed. At least that's how it's supposed to work. BTW, Kimber will not sell you this part and they will not repair your pistol without this POS. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif Additionally, Kimber is pressing the rear sights in so tight you risk damaging the slide removing them (which is necessary to remove the broken FPB). Can you tell I'm really Pixxed off at Kimber?
An other option you may want to look at is Dan Wesson. My brother and I have 3 DW 1911s and they're pretty nice. Plus you get a lot of value for the dollar. I'm carrying my PTC-BOB daily and I love it.
THe PTC-BOB is the bobtail on the bottom.
Have you looked at the S&W 1911 SC? That woul be another sweet carry pistol. I think I'm going to pick one up sometime this year. I just need to get all of my NFA purchases paid for first.
Good luck and let us know how it turns out for you.
Here are a couple pics of Kimbers POS firing pin block. I think the Brady's must have designed it!
Before
After 17 rounds from a brand new Kimber TLE II. Let the Kimber fanatics argue with that. This is not a fluke by any means. It happens all too often and once it does the pistol CANNOT be fired as the spring is between the top of the slide and the FPB pushing the block down on the firing pin. The plunger moves the FPB up when the grip safety is pressed. At least that's how it's supposed to work. BTW, Kimber will not sell you this part and they will not repair your pistol without this POS. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif Additionally, Kimber is pressing the rear sights in so tight you risk damaging the slide removing them (which is necessary to remove the broken FPB). Can you tell I'm really Pixxed off at Kimber?
An other option you may want to look at is Dan Wesson. My brother and I have 3 DW 1911s and they're pretty nice. Plus you get a lot of value for the dollar. I'm carrying my PTC-BOB daily and I love it.
THe PTC-BOB is the bobtail on the bottom.
Have you looked at the S&W 1911 SC? That woul be another sweet carry pistol. I think I'm going to pick one up sometime this year. I just need to get all of my NFA purchases paid for first.
Good luck and let us know how it turns out for you.
Last edited:
Squeeze
New member
Big 10,
I went down this road a several years ago, and got pretty much the
same responses. The Kimber fans, and the Wilson fans, came out
strong. I haunted the 1911 forums for a few months, and went
to all of the area gunshops, and handled most of the different
pistol brands. By watching the forums, I saw unhappy owners
of just about all brands, and to my surprise, a number of Kimber
owners, were unhappy with some Kimbers. As I recall it was some
Series II pistols(I forget the exact pistol series) that got most of the
negative reviews. So beware of the brand loyal at all costs types.
Kimber, and Colt, have a bunch of brand loyal at all cost types, and
they are very free with your money. I personally found Kimber
to not be the best value, but I am sure that many feel otherwise.
I ended up purchasing a Springfield fullsize "Loaded" model.
It has been a flawlessly reliable, and accurate, pistol. I will
buy a commander sized pistol, in the future, and once again
I will hit the gunshops, and handle, and hand cycle a few, and
lurk on the 1911 forums looking for good and bad reviews,
for commander sized pistols. As for a full sized pistol, I have
looked at the new Sig, and if it had been around, when I made
my purchase, it probably would have been the Sig. But I am
very happy with my Springfield, and already my two sons
are argueing over who gets it when I pass on....I guess I should
buy another full sized pistol, just so the boys each get one /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Squeeze
I went down this road a several years ago, and got pretty much the
same responses. The Kimber fans, and the Wilson fans, came out
strong. I haunted the 1911 forums for a few months, and went
to all of the area gunshops, and handled most of the different
pistol brands. By watching the forums, I saw unhappy owners
of just about all brands, and to my surprise, a number of Kimber
owners, were unhappy with some Kimbers. As I recall it was some
Series II pistols(I forget the exact pistol series) that got most of the
negative reviews. So beware of the brand loyal at all costs types.
Kimber, and Colt, have a bunch of brand loyal at all cost types, and
they are very free with your money. I personally found Kimber
to not be the best value, but I am sure that many feel otherwise.
I ended up purchasing a Springfield fullsize "Loaded" model.
It has been a flawlessly reliable, and accurate, pistol. I will
buy a commander sized pistol, in the future, and once again
I will hit the gunshops, and handle, and hand cycle a few, and
lurk on the 1911 forums looking for good and bad reviews,
for commander sized pistols. As for a full sized pistol, I have
looked at the new Sig, and if it had been around, when I made
my purchase, it probably would have been the Sig. But I am
very happy with my Springfield, and already my two sons
are argueing over who gets it when I pass on....I guess I should
buy another full sized pistol, just so the boys each get one /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Squeeze
In 1911's I have two old Colts, a Springer full size, a Kimber pro carry, I have had, Brolin, Auto-Ordinance, Olympic arms.
In non1911'2, I have owned S&W autos, sigs, glocks,Taurus, Berettas, Brownings. I played with a S&W 1911 the other day, seemed ok, but not something I'd buy, rougher and needed a trigger job than my Kimber.
The old Colts, one is stock, one totally tricked out.
My day to day carry and all round fav is the Kimber Pro-Carry. second I'd choose the Springer, neither Colt impresses me accuracy or functional, Brolin is junk, Auto Ord, junk. Olympic good gun, Like it, get the grip frame without that stupid bump for your finger.
S&W Okay, Sig over rated junk, I will never buy another Taurus pistol, factory deffects in three cured me, Glocks work, ugly awkward. Berettas mod. 92 I'd rather carry a club, Browning Hi-power good gun, crappy caliber.
2500 rounds no failure of any kind in the Kimber, accurate, light. All you gotta decide is flat or curved main spring house, depends on your grip style.
Best buy here lately is older S&W revolvers, they are accurate, nice, nice triggers, good buys, I think I'll end up with a pile of them.
this is my totally scientiffic and un biassed opinion! LOL Wilsons are SWEEEEEET, way too much money.
I dont think you can go wrong with a Kimber or Springer.
Carl
In non1911'2, I have owned S&W autos, sigs, glocks,Taurus, Berettas, Brownings. I played with a S&W 1911 the other day, seemed ok, but not something I'd buy, rougher and needed a trigger job than my Kimber.
The old Colts, one is stock, one totally tricked out.
My day to day carry and all round fav is the Kimber Pro-Carry. second I'd choose the Springer, neither Colt impresses me accuracy or functional, Brolin is junk, Auto Ord, junk. Olympic good gun, Like it, get the grip frame without that stupid bump for your finger.
S&W Okay, Sig over rated junk, I will never buy another Taurus pistol, factory deffects in three cured me, Glocks work, ugly awkward. Berettas mod. 92 I'd rather carry a club, Browning Hi-power good gun, crappy caliber.
2500 rounds no failure of any kind in the Kimber, accurate, light. All you gotta decide is flat or curved main spring house, depends on your grip style.
Best buy here lately is older S&W revolvers, they are accurate, nice, nice triggers, good buys, I think I'll end up with a pile of them.
this is my totally scientiffic and un biassed opinion! LOL Wilsons are SWEEEEEET, way too much money.
I dont think you can go wrong with a Kimber or Springer.
Carl
LeadPoison
New member
I have always been partial to Dan Wessons, but you should go somewhere and see if it is at all possible to shoot some the pistols so you can see what feels right in your hand.
Colorado Pete
New member
Big 10,
If this is your first pistol, I advise staying away from the short barrel and/or lightweight frame models. The reason is that they have considerably more recoil and muzzle jump than the full-size all-steel 5" barrel government models.
If you have not had much pistol shooting experience and have not been properly trained in the modern isosceles grip and stance which is currently state of the art among practical pistol competitors, you will find the shorty guns to be a real handful to control. In fact you might think even the government model to be a handful.
Once you have the proper grip and stance technique down though, the full-size gun will handle like a pussycat. I advise going that route - full-size gun and then proper training from a middle-to-high end competitive IPSC shooter to show you how to handle it properly if you don't already know how. Then once you are comfortable with it and shooting it well, you'll naturally start to think about a short carry gun without any prompting from the rest of us!
Along those lines, I suggest staying away from the really short ones (3" to 3.5") as the geometry of making the short barrel tilt is different from the longer barrels, and some of these guns have been known to hang up more so than longer ones. The 4" models I think are short enough and retain more weight out at the muzzle to help dampen jump, and length doesn't matter anyway if you use an inside the waistband holster.
The Kimbers are nice but pricey (although I think you get what you pay for), but consider that a basic Springfield, while not fancy, has all that you need and the $$ difference will pay for a couple of spare magazines and maybe a good holster too, or a bunch of ammo.
Oh yeah, you'll need some good mags. Wilson, Mec-Gar, and Chip McCormick have good reps. You'll want at least four or five total, in time. A mag pouch (a double or two singles) and a decent brand of holster should go on the list too. Don't buy anything with a thumbsnap if you can help it.
If this is your first pistol, I advise staying away from the short barrel and/or lightweight frame models. The reason is that they have considerably more recoil and muzzle jump than the full-size all-steel 5" barrel government models.
If you have not had much pistol shooting experience and have not been properly trained in the modern isosceles grip and stance which is currently state of the art among practical pistol competitors, you will find the shorty guns to be a real handful to control. In fact you might think even the government model to be a handful.
Once you have the proper grip and stance technique down though, the full-size gun will handle like a pussycat. I advise going that route - full-size gun and then proper training from a middle-to-high end competitive IPSC shooter to show you how to handle it properly if you don't already know how. Then once you are comfortable with it and shooting it well, you'll naturally start to think about a short carry gun without any prompting from the rest of us!
Along those lines, I suggest staying away from the really short ones (3" to 3.5") as the geometry of making the short barrel tilt is different from the longer barrels, and some of these guns have been known to hang up more so than longer ones. The 4" models I think are short enough and retain more weight out at the muzzle to help dampen jump, and length doesn't matter anyway if you use an inside the waistband holster.
The Kimbers are nice but pricey (although I think you get what you pay for), but consider that a basic Springfield, while not fancy, has all that you need and the $$ difference will pay for a couple of spare magazines and maybe a good holster too, or a bunch of ammo.
Oh yeah, you'll need some good mags. Wilson, Mec-Gar, and Chip McCormick have good reps. You'll want at least four or five total, in time. A mag pouch (a double or two singles) and a decent brand of holster should go on the list too. Don't buy anything with a thumbsnap if you can help it.
Arborman
New member
Or you could do as I did and start out with a Colt full size, then buy a Springfield Micro compact (in my opinion the best carry 1911) then get a full size Kimber, then a Dan Wesson, then a Smith & Wesson! Then when you can't decide which one to carry....slip the S&W J frame Airweight under the belt and walk out the door...cause it's the most comfortable carry gun out there! No really, I have almost every 1911 variant out there and although I'm a die hard Colt fan(It IS all about the PONY you know), I don't think anyone can go wrong with a Kimber. No..they aren't cheap, but they are accurate, have good cust relations skills and they perform. I do believe I'd buy another Dan Wesson before another Kimber though. Now that is a pistol that give the most value for the buck! Good luck...whichever you get...if you don't like it..I'll probably buy it from you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
i just recently got into 1911's i went to the 1911 forum.com, and just read about all the different models and the range report section of this board. i bought one of the cheapest 1911's that was discussed and i can not say enough good about it and the service they provide. i bought 3 1911 for less than some of the other brands get for 1. i had problems with one of the 3. and after two trips back they replaced it with a brand new pistol worth $200.00 more than the one's i orignaly purchased. i bought 1 full size 1911 and 2 officers size. the fullsize has never failed through over 1000 rounds. i have used several different types of factory ammo but mostly my handloads, and several different magizines the full size has yet to fail. i can not recommend their officers model. they fixed one and i have about 300 rounds through it with no failures. the other officers model they replaced with another full size, at my request. the pistol brand Rock Island Arms/Armscor. you can get them online for $284.00 and up. i know lot of people will knock them but 90% of the reviews on the 1911 forum are favorable. if you are interested pm me. i do not work for or have any financial interest in this company. but when i had a problem they went more than the extra mile to make me happy customer.
fwiw arky65
fwiw arky65
BroncoGlenn
New member
The Springfield "Loaded" guns are a good value. They include nicities like tritium sights and ambi-safties (if that's your thing). They also carry a lifetime warranty. Their frames are made in Brazil which may be important if you got anything against the Brazilians.
The Springfields use a Series 70 design. The Series 80, Swartz, and Kimber Series II safeties are basically different approaches to passing drop tests required by Kalifornia. Springfield simply uses a titanium firing pin to pass the tests. There are proponents and oppoents to every form out there. A lot of people jump up and down frothing at the mouth claiming anything other than JMB's (John Moses Browning) design is a atrocity in the 1911 world. Ignore them. These are the same people who grip about external extractors not realizing that was in fact JMB's initial design intention for the 1911 until the Army basically said it had too many small parts for soldiers to risk loosing resulting in the internal extractor design. But I digress.
If you are planning on shooting hollowpoints through an alloy frame, make sure the feed ramp is incorporated on the barrel as hollowpoints are notorious for chewing up alloy frame integrated feed ramps. I know Springfield has the ramped barrel as I have their 4" Compact model.
People are going to be biased to one model of pistol over another regardless. I like the Springfield I have. It works, although recoil is a little pronounced with the lighter alloy frame and 4" barrel/slide, but for concealed carry guns this isn't much of an issue. But it shoots great and does what I ask of it. Had some feed problems from cheap magazines but elimated that problem by tossing the bad mags.
Avoid anything with less than a 4" barrel on it. If you want a short barreled .45 ACP, check out the S&W Chief's Special. 1911's are notorious for having issues with 3" and 3.5" barrels. While not every one has problems, they have more than their fair share. But from all I've spoke to that have the S&W CS45 they all report flawless function. Unfortuanately it isn't a 1911. Springfield now has a .45 GAP 1911 with a 3" barrel and supposedly it works much better than 3" .45 ACP guns.
As far as Kimber, Colt, Dan Wesson, and others, I'm sure they all make good guns, just haven't had any experience with them to comment. I've got a S&W PC1911 on order but haven't seen or shot it yet to comment on it.
As for MIM parts, they are a fact of life from pretty much every maker out there. They are less expensive than milled or forged parts, hence their popularity with manufacturers. If they bother you they can generally be swapped out.
I'd recommend making a list of what features you are looking for and what your budget is and then figguring out which brands fit into your criteria. That's how I wound up with my Springfield. Any of the major makers out there will fix a bum gun should you get one. And no maker is flawless, everyone puts out a bad one.
The Springfields use a Series 70 design. The Series 80, Swartz, and Kimber Series II safeties are basically different approaches to passing drop tests required by Kalifornia. Springfield simply uses a titanium firing pin to pass the tests. There are proponents and oppoents to every form out there. A lot of people jump up and down frothing at the mouth claiming anything other than JMB's (John Moses Browning) design is a atrocity in the 1911 world. Ignore them. These are the same people who grip about external extractors not realizing that was in fact JMB's initial design intention for the 1911 until the Army basically said it had too many small parts for soldiers to risk loosing resulting in the internal extractor design. But I digress.
If you are planning on shooting hollowpoints through an alloy frame, make sure the feed ramp is incorporated on the barrel as hollowpoints are notorious for chewing up alloy frame integrated feed ramps. I know Springfield has the ramped barrel as I have their 4" Compact model.
People are going to be biased to one model of pistol over another regardless. I like the Springfield I have. It works, although recoil is a little pronounced with the lighter alloy frame and 4" barrel/slide, but for concealed carry guns this isn't much of an issue. But it shoots great and does what I ask of it. Had some feed problems from cheap magazines but elimated that problem by tossing the bad mags.
Avoid anything with less than a 4" barrel on it. If you want a short barreled .45 ACP, check out the S&W Chief's Special. 1911's are notorious for having issues with 3" and 3.5" barrels. While not every one has problems, they have more than their fair share. But from all I've spoke to that have the S&W CS45 they all report flawless function. Unfortuanately it isn't a 1911. Springfield now has a .45 GAP 1911 with a 3" barrel and supposedly it works much better than 3" .45 ACP guns.
As far as Kimber, Colt, Dan Wesson, and others, I'm sure they all make good guns, just haven't had any experience with them to comment. I've got a S&W PC1911 on order but haven't seen or shot it yet to comment on it.
As for MIM parts, they are a fact of life from pretty much every maker out there. They are less expensive than milled or forged parts, hence their popularity with manufacturers. If they bother you they can generally be swapped out.
I'd recommend making a list of what features you are looking for and what your budget is and then figguring out which brands fit into your criteria. That's how I wound up with my Springfield. Any of the major makers out there will fix a bum gun should you get one. And no maker is flawless, everyone puts out a bad one.