20 hornet AI
- Thread starter ackleyman
- Start date
AWS
Custom Accessory Maker & Retired PM Staff
As far as I know Ackley never made a 20 Hornet AI or even a 22 Hornet AI rather relying on the work of Lysle Kilbourn for any improvements to the 22H. He did do a 17 Hornet AI. More than likely it should be just a 20 Hornet KI if it uses Kilbourn specs for the body or if not just a 20 Hornet Improved.
This tacking an AI on to any improved case has gotten way out of hand. There were many experimenters out there that we have stolen their work, like Mashburn, Kilbourn, Gibbs, Gebby off the top of my head and credit their work to Ackley. Just because a case is improved it isn't an AI.
Maybe a 20 Calhoun Hornet would have more appropriate or 20 Hornet Kilbourn.
This tacking an AI on to any improved case has gotten way out of hand. There were many experimenters out there that we have stolen their work, like Mashburn, Kilbourn, Gibbs, Gebby off the top of my head and credit their work to Ackley. Just because a case is improved it isn't an AI.
Maybe a 20 Calhoun Hornet would have more appropriate or 20 Hornet Kilbourn.
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Often, anything with an "improved" shoulder angle of 40 degrees, gets referred to as being a "Ackley Improved" whether it was ever actually a cartridge Ackley worked with or not.
Example, myself and many others with a 338 Lapua Improved that has a 40 degree shoulder angle, generally, refer to this particular version as being the 338 Lapua AI even though Ackley, obviously, never worked with a 338 Lapua.
I'm not trying to excuse, justify, or say it's right why so many improved cartridges are referred to as being Ackley Improved, even though some of them were never cartridges Ackley worked with, but, even though it may not be correct, more often than not, anything that's "improved" to 40 degrees is usually referred to as being a AI.
I've always thought a 20 Hornet, whether it be the Hornady Hornet, K-Hornet, or Ackley Hornet, shooting something like the 24gr NTX Hornady bullet, would be a VERY fun little gun. I wouldn't mind rebarreling one of my CZ 527 17 Hornets into a 20 Hornet of some sort so it'll be interesting to see who all responds to this thread and how well they like their 20 Hornets.
Example, myself and many others with a 338 Lapua Improved that has a 40 degree shoulder angle, generally, refer to this particular version as being the 338 Lapua AI even though Ackley, obviously, never worked with a 338 Lapua.
I'm not trying to excuse, justify, or say it's right why so many improved cartridges are referred to as being Ackley Improved, even though some of them were never cartridges Ackley worked with, but, even though it may not be correct, more often than not, anything that's "improved" to 40 degrees is usually referred to as being a AI.
I've always thought a 20 Hornet, whether it be the Hornady Hornet, K-Hornet, or Ackley Hornet, shooting something like the 24gr NTX Hornady bullet, would be a VERY fun little gun. I wouldn't mind rebarreling one of my CZ 527 17 Hornets into a 20 Hornet of some sort so it'll be interesting to see who all responds to this thread and how well they like their 20 Hornets.
AWS
Custom Accessory Maker & Retired PM Staff
Just a thought on the 20 Hornet Improved. There are no bullets manufactured for a low velocity 20 cal. How would the performance be with it on game?
I've played with the idea of catting the hornet to the point of making dummy rounds. The most versatile I could come up with is the 25 Hornet, I'll just call it that as there isn't enough shoulder left to change. As with the 20 cal the 6mm has no bullets designed for a slow application, but the 25 has bullets designed for the 25-20 Win. plus there are numerous cast bullets available for the 25-20. I load bulk 85gr Flatnose bullets in my 25-205 and the cost is near shooting a 22 Magnum. Why not just build a 25-20? There were only Three bolt action repeaters built for the 25-20, the Wen Mod 43, the Sako 46 and the Savage 23. You would have to find a pristine Sav as the action is milled out of the barrel end. The Win 43 wasn't all that successful and parts and mags hard to find. While the Sako L-46 would be perfect finding one in with the correct boltface would be outrageously expensive as there are so few in 218 Bee, 25-20 or 32-20 that the collectors market has priced them out of my range. So that leaves building a 25 Hornet, a CZ-527 would be ideal.
I've played with the idea of catting the hornet to the point of making dummy rounds. The most versatile I could come up with is the 25 Hornet, I'll just call it that as there isn't enough shoulder left to change. As with the 20 cal the 6mm has no bullets designed for a slow application, but the 25 has bullets designed for the 25-20 Win. plus there are numerous cast bullets available for the 25-20. I load bulk 85gr Flatnose bullets in my 25-205 and the cost is near shooting a 22 Magnum. Why not just build a 25-20? There were only Three bolt action repeaters built for the 25-20, the Wen Mod 43, the Sako 46 and the Savage 23. You would have to find a pristine Sav as the action is milled out of the barrel end. The Win 43 wasn't all that successful and parts and mags hard to find. While the Sako L-46 would be perfect finding one in with the correct boltface would be outrageously expensive as there are so few in 218 Bee, 25-20 or 32-20 that the collectors market has priced them out of my range. So that leaves building a 25 Hornet, a CZ-527 would be ideal.
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AWS
Custom Accessory Maker & Retired PM Staff
22H Improved 30 degree or 22H 30 degree Improved is a generic, Ackley Improved is a pretty specific in a 40 degree with the ability to fire form the original cartridge in the AI chamber without creating a false shoulder or seating the bullet into the lands to control head space.
Yes the Hornet has no shoulder and headspaces on the rim but to call it an AI would be a misnomer.
Yes the Hornet has no shoulder and headspaces on the rim but to call it an AI would be a misnomer.
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Brad Phillips
Active member
This topic has led me to do some research on wildcat developers and the work they did. I read some and bookmarked quite a bit of stuff for a rainy day.
aws, your quote, "Just a thought on the 20 Hornet Improved. There are no bullets manufactured for a low velocity 20 cal. How would the performance be with it on game? "
Not sure I follow you.
This would be a squirrel, p. dog, chuck round.
Perhaps you are referring to coyotes?
Not sure I follow you.
This would be a squirrel, p. dog, chuck round.
Perhaps you are referring to coyotes?
AWS
Custom Accessory Maker & Retired PM Staff
This is a predator hunting sight so I guess that was where I was going. I'm not much of varmint hunter, kill a few PD's in my daughters pasture/alfalfa fields. I usually don't kill things I can't eat or skin. I do take a few at the convention to test bullets and rifles. I like ELKO but miss pelts that were nice enough to make things with.
A nice looking coyote from the Tucson convention. Taken just north of the Mex border.
A nice looking coyote from the Tucson convention. Taken just north of the Mex border.