.204 vs 6mm's

6mm

6mm

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I almost got bit by the 204 bug a few weeks back, that was untill I did some research. Here's what I've found, but I'd love to hear some other oppinions.
The 204 shoots 30-40 grainers right around 4000 with around 30 grains of powder. None of the hard data I've seen can come close to the 4200 that factory loads show. I'm a huge 6mm fan (hence the name) and I shoot 55 grain Noslers at 4150 with only 42 grains of powder and I can go all the way up to 105's. That makes the 6mm a far superior rifle on everything larger than a Chuck. Recoil is there, but it isn't much. This being the case the only advantage I can see to the 204 is in a prarie dog town, even then only under fast and furious shooting. Even a 22-250 shooting 40's is at least as fast. I'm always in the mood to purchase a new rifle but the 204 just doesn't stack up from where I'm sitting. ~6mm
 
6MM:

First off - just for the record - the 20 calibers are not new. Folks have been shooting 20 caliber wildcats for years with the 20 Tactical probably being the best known for the past 6-8 years. If you've never shot a 20 caliber rifle extensively to see what they are really capable of, you most likely won't believe what anyone else tells you they are capable of. Are they "Magic". Of course not, but they are a step forward in flat shooting factory rifles.

With that said, what everyone gets hung up on with the 204 Ruger is the muzzle velocity. The real beauty of the 20 calibers comes with the high BC heavier bullets that leave the muzzle slower than the 32's, but leave the 32's in the dust ballistically beyond ~300 yards.

Incidentally a 204 Ruger shooting anything with ~30 grains of powder is going to be a hot load that I'm not sure I WOULD want to be behind. Varget and IMR 4895 at just below 29 grains are hot loads in some rifles. And yes, some people did not get the advertised velocities from their new 204 Ruger rifles. Others have.

While its on my mind, you might do a search for Silverfox. He posted some ballistic information showing 223 WSSM, 22-250, and I believe 243/6MM trajectory data. Its pretty eye opening if you can find it - its back a couple of months.
If you find the info Silverfox posted, I think you'll find the 40 grain bullet in the 22-250 is in a big arc at the same distances the same weight 20 caliber bullets are still flat and fast. Better bullet BC. again the issue of muzzle velocity versus reality.

I have shot 20 Tacticals for several years and of course the 204 just this past year. Believe what you want, but they are amazingly flat and very accurate to long ranges shooting PD's, etc. And for the record, I have shot 6MM's at PD's for years, and have seen the differences first hand. In addition, the 20's will kill coyotes very, very effectively - just like the 6MM's. I would not use a 20 on anything much larger, but I'm sure they will kill deer about like the 22's do. However, I don't think anyone with a 20 caliber rifle is probably planning on it as their primary deer hunting rifle.

I have been fortunate enough to probably shoot in excess of several thousand rounds a year at PD's for many years from 17's on up in caliber, including 6mm's. For the past several years I have left the 22's at home and taken 17's, 20's and 6mm's. Believe it or not - a 20 will kill PD's at the same ranges the 6MM's will, and you get to see it happen in the scope with the 20's. There is a noticeable difference in recoil.

I guess my only other point is believe what you read if you want, but don't be an expert on something you only know about from what you have read. Whether you buy a 20 caliber rifle or not will not impact my life in the least bit - just stick with proven facts and not info. from some cane pole fishing and coon dog chasing journal written by someone who just shot their first 20 caliber rifle just before sitting down at the word processor.

Enjoy your 6MM - its a good round - but so is the 204 Ruger. If I could only have one rifle, it would be a 6MM over a 20 caliber so I could use it for deer also. But fortunately, I don't have to make that decision. - BCB
 
Thats OK 6mm. My brother doesn't either & he's been reloading for 30+ years. He says it won't kill g-hogs at 400+yds. I'm hoping to find out this summer. I realistically expect clean kills at 450yds. If not I know to back off. If so,, I know to go a little further. Only time will tell. I do know one thing is for sure. This round is for real. It's not going to fade.
 
6MM:

And you probably never will.

If you want to justify your decision to not buy a 204 Ruger by not believing the hype, you're probably a smart man. I never bought my first 20 caliber rifle based on any hype either. I did it after shooting one a friend had along side what I already had (17's, 22's, and 6MM's), and comparing chrony ballistics as well as real life experiences with them side by side.

On the flip side - if you never shoot one, you'll only be working off someone else's limited opinion to form your own personal theories. That's not too good from where I operate from. You'll never know what you might be missing - in rifles and many other things in life - by forming "expert opinions" based mostly on what you read.

About the only other thing I can say is the 204 Ruger and any 6MM rifle are different enough that I can justify having both - realizing they are not the same and were never intended to be the same. Kinda' like a 243 Winchester is not a ...(pick a caliber/cartridge). And none of them are magical in any way, shape or form. Some are just better than others for specific reasons when real life comparisons are made.

Again - enjoy your 6MM. - BCB /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif
 
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I've shot a couple .204s, and they're accurate and fun to shoot (they are pretty loud though). I still can't see the advantage. You stated BC is the advantage when you go to heavier bullets. I can't find much data but I suppose you could shoot a 40 grainer out of the .204 at around 3700-3850 but the BC of a 40 grain 20 cal bullet is still under .250, in some cases well under .250. The BC of a .224 40 grain Nosler is .221 and a 55 grain 6mm is .276. So, in trajectory the 6mm @ 4150 fps dominates the .204 with any bullet you choose. You may have heard otherwise, but the numbers don't lie. Superior BC and Superior Velocity = Superior Trajectory. That doesn't even take into consideration the 30% greater bullet mass and frontal area that provide much better terminal performance. The .204 is cool, but not practical. Just a few more numbers to chew on. ~6mm
 
BCB,
I forgot in my previous post to thank you for your excellent reply. I can tell your a man who knows his rounds and also his keyboard. It's always a pleasure to exchange a friendly debate with someone who knows how to relay information. Thanks again, and I look forward to many more rounds of friendly fire. ~6mm
 
Ok, I couldn't find the BC on the V-max, that makes the 6mm and .204 identical in trajectory (provided you can get that 4100+ out of the .204, I've yet to see it on the Chrony). Thanks for that last piece of the puzzle. ~6mm
 
BCB--well said. I think you guys are comparing two very different rounds here though. The largest thing I hunt with my 204 is a coyote. The smallest thing I hunt with my 243 is a coyote. --2MG
 
2muchgun:

How ya' doing? I agree with what you said and that was the point I was trying to make with 6MM - plus don't believe everything you read, especially in gun rags, to make a decision. LOL

6MM:

Yes the 204's are loud - so are most of my bigger 17 calibers. That's what happens when you release a fast moving bullet from the end of a small hole in a rifle barrel. On the frontal area issue - you're correct, but an animal only reaches a certain point of "being dead" no matter what hits him.

You're right - the numbers don't lie. Not sure where you got your 20 caliber BC's, but the bullets must have had holes in them or something. LOL Again, stick with facts and not "I think"'s for your arguement. Someone might believe your mis-information.

Sierra 39 grain - .287 BC
Hornady V-Max 40 grain - .275 BC

Run those factory BC's provided through a good ballistic program and see what they tell you. To be honest, I don't shoot a lot of factory bullets other than for comparison purposes because I have hand swaged my own 20 caliber bullets for several years and haven't really worried about what the bullet folks are turning out. I'm not bragging, but I have worked hard at it and feel mine are better for what I want to do than any bullet you can currently buy. In defense of the bullet makers, I'm not trying to turn out a couple hundred thousand in a batch when I make mine.

It is good, however, to see the new offerings from Sierra to complement what Hornady and Berger have been doing for several years. All of them are very accurate bullets - just not real tough. But that's how they were designed - to please the "Shock and Awe" varmint crowd.

A nice little lead tipped 20 cal bullet would be nice to see someone produce. Believe me, they add a whole new dimension to the 20 caliber bullet world with the right bullet jacket attached - (the key). I have used them on PD's and coyotes both and they generally leave a nice little entrance hole, a nice little exit hole if they come through a coyote, and a very dead critter in between.

Ya'll take care. - BCB
 
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Fur, fur, fur...it's about the fur (again). If you want to blow a hole the size of a baseball through a coyote stick with the 6mm...if you want a dime sized hole or NO EXIT at 100 yards plus go with a smaller caliber. That's why allot of guys shoot .17 Rems and now....204s...the fur.
 
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Fur, fur, fur...it's about the fur (again). If you want to blow a hole the size of a baseball through a coyote stick with the 6mm...if you want a dime sized hole or NO EXIT at 100 yards plus go with a smaller caliber. That's why allot of guys shoot .17 Rems and now....204s...the fur.



Yep, although some would say if you want fur you should use a trap.

I agree you're almost comparing apples and oranges. A better debate would be 6mm Rem vs .243.
 
Kind of like comparing apples to oranges.
Or 6mm's vs 300 Win Mag.
Are you using it for diggers or elk or maybe something in between. They don't make anything that is best for everything. Thats why they make and sell so many different cartridges in so many different calibers.
Each one has a place to shine.
Buy what you like and what will do the job you need done and who cares what someone else thinks about the deal. They can do their thing.
REM
 
One thing I know for sure about the .204 is it got the debate off of the .17 for a while.
 
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Hi, I am a .20 fan in pellet guns and the .17/.20/.22 debate is the same with pellet guns only magnified in rifles. The .20 is nearly as flat as the .17 and flatter than the .22. With the .20 and .22 shooting the same pellet brand and weight at the same velocity, then the .20 will retain more energy after 50 yds and surpass the .22. Anyway here is a pic of a coyote I shot at 25 yds with a Tikka .22-250 55 gr psp. no apparent hole until skinning. Second pic is one I called for a friend, shot at 40 yds Rem 6mm 75 gr, noticeable hole.
Pcoyote1010008x.jpg
P1010018cx.jpg
 
Vic:

Re 20-223:

I have a couple of 20 Tacticals which are the 223 case with the shoulder pushed back a little and the case improved upon fire forming. IMHO, the 20 Tac is a much more efficient case as it will do everything the 204 Ruger will do with less powder and good cases can be formed from excellent 223 brass from IMI and Lapau and others.

I have a friend who has shot a 5MM-223 for several years. It is the 223 necked down to 20 caiber with no other changes. I have seen a new "re-invention" of this round called the 20 Practical in recent months. I guess its "Practical" since no form die is need to just neck the case down whereas a form die is needed in making the 20 Tactical.

All in all, they are pretty much ballistic twins of each other and the 204 Ruger for most purposes.

20-250:

I do not have one but I hope to have a 20-250 before too long. I have seen discussions on it at Saubier and a couple of other places but that's about all I know about it. It looks like it will really zip a heavier bullet, but the 250 case burns a lot of powder, so it may be hard on barrels. I plan to have it built on a 20 caliber 3 groove 1 in 9" twist PacNor barrel on a 700 action.

That's about all I can add. - BCB
 


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