221 Form and Trim die
- Thread starter Joelwill
- Start date
Joelwill
New member
Thank you. Any change you can share the part numbers on the boxes?
El Jefe
Active member
There are a lot of ways to skin this cat. I don’t know if one way is better than another and someone’s set up and personal preference on the order will decide what’s best if that makes sense.
What I have ended up doing is the initial 2 sizing steps and trim with a harbor freight chop saw leaving them long. Final trimming is done after the final full length sizing. I also anneal after the first forming step. You know where the new shoulder will be at this point and it helps give a good pass through the final sizing step. On my last pass through the full length die I also leave the case in the die for a good 3 seconds or so and that has helped eliminate any brass spring back.
What I have ended up doing is the initial 2 sizing steps and trim with a harbor freight chop saw leaving them long. Final trimming is done after the final full length sizing. I also anneal after the first forming step. You know where the new shoulder will be at this point and it helps give a good pass through the final sizing step. On my last pass through the full length die I also leave the case in the die for a good 3 seconds or so and that has helped eliminate any brass spring back.
Sgt_Mike
Well-known member
To echo El Jefe
I've used the Redding form and trim die to size down .223 into .221 Fireball (Redding # 83101)
(221 Remington Fireball Form & Trim Die)
then once done use a standard FL to finish them off as he stated.
Note it's not a one step process but rather set the die to touch and slowly set the shoulder back bit by bit until which means a lot of passes otherwise creases and collapse shoulder galore.
The best results was using a FL .222 die first (a 22 form and trim works really well too). Oohh and almost forgot chamfer the outside neck before running in the dies it helps a lot
I've had good results doing a .221 Fireball rimmed based off the .357 Maximum (no not a .357 magnum but a maximum case, this was for the martini cadet I have, they don't work easily with rimless cases)
the .357 Max to .221 Fireball Rimmed I used 300 Blackout to start the shoulder forming, then go to the .222 again 1/4 to 1 turn down from contact at full stroke go slow onse you get a basic .222 Rimmed (which will be short, die and shellholder make contact) one can slip in the .221 form and trim die again make contact with ram in the up position and slowly work down. Form and trim dies are hardened so a mill bastard file can be used to shorten the length as you work the shoulder to where it needs to be.
I have tried the trimming close to FB length and then form that worked but there was a lot more culls than waiting to trim after forming or trimming as you form which actually I preferred
But bear in mind I don't have the form 1 die ( aka .221 Body die Redding # 75101) that El Jefe showed hence the usage of a .222 FL / or form die to reduce the body of the 223 cartridge.
I've used the Redding form and trim die to size down .223 into .221 Fireball (Redding # 83101)
(221 Remington Fireball Form & Trim Die)
then once done use a standard FL to finish them off as he stated.
Note it's not a one step process but rather set the die to touch and slowly set the shoulder back bit by bit until which means a lot of passes otherwise creases and collapse shoulder galore.
The best results was using a FL .222 die first (a 22 form and trim works really well too). Oohh and almost forgot chamfer the outside neck before running in the dies it helps a lot
I've had good results doing a .221 Fireball rimmed based off the .357 Maximum (no not a .357 magnum but a maximum case, this was for the martini cadet I have, they don't work easily with rimless cases)
the .357 Max to .221 Fireball Rimmed I used 300 Blackout to start the shoulder forming, then go to the .222 again 1/4 to 1 turn down from contact at full stroke go slow onse you get a basic .222 Rimmed (which will be short, die and shellholder make contact) one can slip in the .221 form and trim die again make contact with ram in the up position and slowly work down. Form and trim dies are hardened so a mill bastard file can be used to shorten the length as you work the shoulder to where it needs to be.
I have tried the trimming close to FB length and then form that worked but there was a lot more culls than waiting to trim after forming or trimming as you form which actually I preferred
But bear in mind I don't have the form 1 die ( aka .221 Body die Redding # 75101) that El Jefe showed hence the usage of a .222 FL / or form die to reduce the body of the 223 cartridge.
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