.222 Rem Rate of Twist & Bullet Weights

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EMP3

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I've just bought a Sauer 100 .222 Rem. Its rate of twist is 1:12. I believe 1:14 is standard for the .222 Rem. I bought a box of 250 50 grain Hornady V-Max bullets. I've read a few sources that have indicated that the 55 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips perform exceptionally well in .222 Rem Rifles. Can anyone verify?

I will be taking this rifle on big game hunts. I can work in predator hunting, especially if I get lucky early in the season. I hunt high plateaus of Southern Utah where wind is most often a problem. Hence, I'm thinking that if I could get accuracy with a heavier bullet, it might be wise to go that route.

What weights do you guys use in potentially windy conditions?
 
If you picked a 222 Rem to hunt big game I think you really dropped the ball on your decision. Shots have to be absolutely perfect as there is a very good chance that there will be no blood trail and there just isn't the umph in a 222 Rem for a marginal shot to put big game down.

Now if your talking about taking it along to hunt predators after your done with your big game rifle, I think you are on the wrong track again trying to extend the range of your 222 with heavier bullets. Again if that is your goal I think you picked the wrong cartridge. I wouldn't try to push a 222 past 250+ yards and stay under 300. Energy drops off and trajectory can be problematic.

I'm a 222 Rem fan shooting two for coyotes and one for varmints. I find that 40gr NBT's for flat shooting varmints and 52gr Speer FB HP varmint bullets(for closer in coyotes)) work well.

I would spend some time at the range and see If 55's will actually give you any benefits at extended ranges over 40-50gr BT's

You bought a 222 Rem don't try and make it into a 22-250, you could have bought a 22-250 and shoot long range and load it down to 222 velocities when that was appropriate.
 
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I hear the 60gr vmax and NBT work...with a larger caliber and faster twist. I wouldn't use any 22 cal for big game hunting...ever. I don't care what anyone says, it's not ethical or a logical choice.
 
Good Morning, AWS,

No. I bought my .222 Rem for killing coyotes and possibly small game. I've read too many accounts of the .222 Rem used successfully on pint-size big game such as blacktail & coues deer & antelope. Used within its limitations on pint-size big game, the .222 Rem has worked and will work. However, I use a .270 Win for all big game hunting. If I'm drawn for desert bighorn next year, God willing, I'll use my lightweight 45+ year old Model 700 .270 with 130 GameKings. That combo drops Rocky Mountain mule deer in their tracks.

My plan is to take my .222 Rem on deer hunts for coyote reduction purposes. I used to consider coyotes nuisances. That evolved to nuisances that prey on fawns & elk calves. Locals have told me to kill 'em on sight because of declining big game herds. Hence, if I were to fill my tag on opening day, I figure I could burn electricity working a coyote call and burn powder while increasing deer and elk herds.

I won't try to make my .222 Rem into a .22-250 Rem. There is no need for me to do so. The .222 Rem is an exceptional performer at its intended purposes. The .222 Rem, for practical purposes, is a 300 yard cartridge for coyote-size animals. My objective is using bullets that have proven capability for one-shot kills on coyotes. I'm gonna begin experimenting with 50 grain Hornady V-Max. However, I've read a few sources that have indicated that the .222 Rem produces exceptional accuracy and predator lethality with 55 grain Ballistic Tips. The unknown for me is the effect of my Sauer's 1:12 rate of twist on bullet weights. 1:14 rate of twist was and probably still is the industry standard for the .222 Rem. I have no clue of why Sauer deviated from the industry standard.

Velocity is an enticing allure for some. The reality, within reason, is it makes little difference. On paper, the .270 WSM looks impressive. In game fields, it has zero on the .270 Win. Assuming that the .270 WSM (with a 24" barrel) does have a 200 FPS advantage on the .270 Win (with a 22" barrel) -and that is nothing more than an assumption- what advantage does 200 FPS at the muzzle give at 400 yards?

BTW, while we're discussing the .22-250 Rem, it used to have a bad rap for burning barrels quicker than a gold digger burning her sugar daddy's bankroll. My guess is that the .22-250 Rem's barrel burning rap is outdated, that a good quality barrel chambered for .22-250 Rem, assuming book loads, would be good for 2-3000 rounds. Is that a valid assessment?

If there were game for which I'd need a .22-250 Rem, I'd use one of my incredibly accurate .270 Win rifles.
 
Hi Dultimatpredator,

I agree that for the most part, .224 caliber rifles ought not be used on big game. However, some years ago I was guided to recent improvement in bullet technology combined with appropriate powder and tighter rifling twist, all combined to deliver heavy bullets with high sectional densities for deep penetration. If a hunter remains within reasonable range and can place his shot, I can see how an 80 grain .224 bullet could destroy a buck's heart. The buck ain't gonna know what stopped its heart from sending oxygenated blood topside. Antelope ain't hard to kill. A 60 grain .224 Partition in an antelope's chest will kill it.

But it's not for me. I want to know that should a bullet strike a buck or bull's rib on its way to decommissioning its oxygenated blood pumping equipment that its of necessary robust construction to assure completion of task. Hence, I love the .270 Win for big game. But then again, just as in predator hunting, there are many excellent big game cartridges from which to choose.

BTW, for Rocky Mountain mule deer, GameKings are tough to beat. For larger critters, I'm committed to Partitions.

Anyway, I bought a .222 Rem because I've long known of its inherent accuracy. It's a dedicated predator/small game rifle. I could vaporize coyotes with a .270 Win, but I've always knew that one day I'd own a .222 Rem. That one day has come. Now I need to get dialed in to putting suitable bullets on fawn & calf preying coyotes. It's that suitable bullet part that's causing me to over-think this. Had Sauer stuck with the industry standard twist of 1:14, I could be thinking of dead coyotes.
 
I suspect that Sauer went with the 1-12 twist due to the proliferation of boat tail/plastic tipped bullets more common today. With semipointed flatbased bullets you could run up to 64 gr bullets successfully in a 1-14 twist. In a 1-14 twist even 55gr tipped boattail bullets become marginal. Stability in bullets has more to do with length than weight(Green Hill Formula).

Green Hill Formula link.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=greenhill+...M=QBRE&sp=1
 
It's a nice thought to think you are helping the deer and elk populations. The reality is that you have to kill a bunch of coyotes to make any difference. You might save a fawn here and there, but the populations of deer and elk are declining for other reasons, predation is just one small part of it.

The deer population where I live has been in the toilet for about 23 years. It was my thought too, to help out the deer and small game by killing coyotes. The deer population is still in the toilet and now the elk population is too, this despite the fact that I kill about 20 coyotes a year in this immediate area.
 
Deer numbers here have been tremendously impacted by depredation from bobcats and coyotes.

On the 222, I shot 50g Sierra lead tip blitz, at 3200, and my shots ran to 250 yards.

You may consider another option. I shoot a 110g tipped tripple shock in my 270 at 3400. I can switch out to a 110g Hornady Hp and have the same exact point of impact. These 110's have a Muzzle velocity right at 3400 fps...this will give you some wind bucking and save you the trouble of taking two rifles. The 110g Sierra pro hunter is also an excellent hunting bullet for both deer and coyotes. The 110g tipped tripple shock is a very, very flat shooting bullet and we have not had issues killing deer and hogs with them.

Keith
 
The 40 grain nosler is supposed to be a miracle pill on coyotes from the 222 from reading past threads. 150-200 yards and in. Mine is gonna find out hopefully this weekend. Alone on thanksgiving so a buddy is coming with and we’ll be spending the extra time off trying to drop as many coyotes in the desert as we can. Both shooting 40 grain noslers and 222s.
 
Originally Posted By: Tracker0721The 40 grain nosler is supposed to be a miracle pill on coyotes from the 222 from reading past threads. 150-200 yards and in. Mine is gonna find out hopefully this weekend. Alone on thanksgiving so a buddy is coming with and we’ll be spending the extra time off trying to drop as many coyotes in the desert as we can. Both shooting 40 grain noslers and 222s.

I've read the same but for some reason just about everyone on this forum shuns them in 223. Same bullet a couple hundred feet per second faster...and apparently it doesn't work for most shooters here...lol...what ever. I believe there are a lot of shooters that need to hone their shooting skills. I have 40 gr NBT loaded at 3650 fps. They shoot like a lazer to 275 yards.
 
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Originally Posted By: ackleymanDeer numbers here have been tremendously impacted by depredation from bobcats and coyotes.

On the 222, I shot 50g Sierra lead tip blitz, at 3200, and my shots ran to 250 yards.

You may consider another option. I shoot a 110g tipped tripple shock in my 270 at 3400. I can switch out to a 110g Hornady Hp and have the same exact point of impact. These 110's have a Muzzle velocity right at 3400 fps...this will give you some wind bucking and save you the trouble of taking two rifles. The 110g Sierra pro hunter is also an excellent hunting bullet for both deer and coyotes. The 110g tipped tripple shock is a very, very flat shooting bullet and we have not had issues killing deer and hogs with them.

Keith

I'm with ackleyman with the one gun for the trip. I grew up on a 222 (14 twist) and strictly used Sierra 52gr HPBT over IMR4198. I wouldn't try and fight the wind with the 222, gusty winds and light bullets have never gotten along. I hunt with a 270 for deer using 140gr Berger's and found 100gr Speer HP to reload for the 270. Never measured speed and they are easily under an inch from a Tikka T3. Point of impact is a bit different, but just make mental note and adjust accordingly when using it for double duty or a couple clicks on the scope. I have hit one yote with the 140gr Berger when it tried to cross the farmers pasture in mid afternoon and it isn't pretty...dead for sure though.
 
The reality is I bought a .222 Rem because I've always wanted one. Were I to use one of my .270 Win rifles on coyotes, I'd use my deer load: 130 grain Sierra Gamekings, 60 grains of H4831 inside of W-W brass (I've since switched to Norma due to quality control issues), & Fed 210M primers. This load will shoot .25" @ a hundred with either of my rifles. I'm sure it'd vaporize coyotes. I've made an extremely long shot on a buck antelope with my Model 700 & 130 grain GameKings. It dropped on impact. I could reach out a long way with that load. But I'd rather shoot at a hundred yards than farther if I can close distance.

Some 40 years ago, my dad loaded Sierra 110 grainers using H-380 powder. It was an incredibly accurate load, but not a good bullet for deer. So I've stuck with 130 grains for Rocky Mountain mule deer & 150 grain Partitions for everything larger.

Side note: the .270 Win is an incredible cartridge. It's versatile and extremely accurate. Put a .270 Win bullet where it oughta go, and all North American big game animals will become hard work.

Back to my Sauer Model 100 .222 Rem & its 1:12 twist. I knew that the .222 Rem's stellar reputation was based upon 40 grain bullets & 1:14 twist. I won't use it on deer-size animals. I had intended to go with 40 grain bullets. But when I saw its twist, it caused me to over-think loading for it. Lately I've read of hunters getting excellent results using 55 grain BallisticTips.

I'll start with 50 grain V-Max & H-4198 & see what happens. If she'll shoot as good as my big game rifles, I'll stick with fifty. I'd rather be hunting than researching best loads for a 1:12 twist ;-)
 
Happy Thanksgiving, Tstorm1,

You're with ackleyman & I'm with you.

Tikka makes excellent rifles. I checked Tikka Website earlier today. It no longer chambers a rifle for .222 Rem.

www.tikka.fi
 
I have personally had good luck with the 50 grain Nosler BT. 1-in-12 twist should stabilize up to 64 grain bullets, but I wouldn't count on it with all of them...the Barnes 62 grain TTSX is probably a no-go. If you reload I would suggest you try H322 or IMR4198 powder.
The 22-250 is a barrel burner, some calibers just are. So far, there are no "modern" alloy barrel steels that can change it. I guess you can cook the throat in anything if you shoot it fast and allow it to get hot enough.
I believe coyotes will eat anything they can sink those teeth into. The state of Virginia did a study a few years back on them because the deer population was declining in the western mountainous part of the state. Their biologist concluded that it was not coyotes eating the deer. When they checked scat during peak fawning times they found mostly rodent hair and bones. The black bear population has been on the incline for several years now. Sure enough, when they went back and had a look at the bear scat they found it included quite a few undigested fawn hooves. They concluded that it was the black bear doing the damage. This could explain some of why guys are steady reducing the coyotes in areas but it might not be helping the deer much.
It could also be that there is plenty more food for coyotes that is easily available during fawning time in Virginia and this finding might not be the same in other areas of the country. I believe coyotes and bears both will pretty much eat anything, but the bear just needs more of it. I don't know, they used to say the same thing about wolves...they mostly eat nothing but field mice. I just cant wrap my head around a pack of wolves {or coyotes} howling up an assembly in the evening to go run around all night and catch mice........good luck with the 222!!!
 
The only way your going to find out if your gun likes 55 gr bullets is to load and shoot it instead of asking questions and getting opinions. I was told my 1/9 twist LTR 223 wouldn't shoot 40 gr bullets. Guess what?...I ignored what everyone said. I shoot cloverleaves with it along with 27 gr of benchmark and .3" groups at 200 yards using 40 gr NBT. It dose the same with 60 gr vmax and a lower powder of 25 gr And also 25.5 gr of h4895. Good luck...get out and try your gun and find our for yourself. I know a 222 is a classic chambering but I chose 223 so I could find brass everywhere and I can always download it to mimic velocities as low as a 22lr with cast bullets if I really wanted to. As far as I'm concerned whether it's a 22/243 or all the way down to a 22 hornet...it's all the same diameter bullet just getting pushed at faster or slower volicities. You just need to fugure out what you want to do with your rifle and load for it. I would load 40's and call it a day. It's what that caliber was designed for. IMO I've never worried about burning out a barrel in a 22-250 or faster volicity cartridges being I hunt predators and not varmints so maybe 2/3 fast shots at the most so my barrel doesn't heat up and always gets cleaned afterwards. I believe the posters that burn out barrels are prairie dog hunters that go out and shoot hundreds of rounds a day or more...barrel abuse as far as I'm concerned. In that aspect your chambering would last longer. If you bought your rifle for nothing but using it to call coyotes the odds of you burning out a barrel would take a lifetime...or more.
 
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I agree don't over think the loading of 222's. 50 gr bullets,4198 all good. Also you can find factory 50 gr vmax loads in most lgs in a pinch.
 
Have had a 222 in my safe since the late 70's. Very easy to load for and extremely accurate. Years ago when we had a lot of prairie dogs around here I loaded Hornady 50 gr SX and shot the heck out of them. Then, some years later I started loading Nosler 40 GR BTHP's and they are extremely accurate as well but I have gotten some splashing on coyotes. So, most recently I worked up a load using the Barnes 36 gr Varmint Grenade. Again, that load is extremely accurate as well but I have not killed a coyote/fox/cat with yet with it yet. But, if it performs anything like the same bullet in the 22-250 or 220S Swift, it will be a great little bullet for that caliber.
My overall point is that the 222 is a highly accurate caliber and I have not loaded anything for it that has been disappointing in the accuracy department. Load a bullet you want to shoot and go have fun with it!
 
I had assumed that the Sauer Model 100 .222 Rem had the industry standard 1:14 twist. After I bought it, I learned it has a 1:12 twist. That upset my apple cart, which caused me to over-think loading I'm gonna go with what I have, which is 50 grain V-Max, IMR 4198, & Fed 205M primers.

After rethinking over-thinking, I'm now thinking that I'm gonna be fine as long as I stick within the 40-55 grain range and not shoot beyond the cartridge's intended range.

Happy Thanksgiving to all & thanks so much for helping me out.
 
Happy Thanksgiving, msinc,

Black bears are efficient predators. CA has a HUGE population of black bears. They're thick as schooled trout in the Eastern Sierra. They grow to become exceptionally large. 450 ponders are common. They have an endless supply of food. Campers are a prime source of food for them. They raid fish cleaning stations at night.

My elk guide saw a black bear feeding on a spike bull on the evening I killed my bull. I think they're opportunistic predators. They'll eat what's easily available, including humans.

Thank God, so far I've been either good or lucky. I haven't had to kill a black bear. I avoid 'em. I don't trust them, especially when my kids are fishing with me. A blackie can have everything we have except us, especially my kids.

There's an excellent National Geographic program about black bears that have stalked & preyed on humans. A game warden friend of mine told me to always carrying a handgun while fishing the Eastern Sierra. If a holster-size RPG were available, I'd use one to protect my kids from a black bear. Years ago I watched a fishing show. On it was a story of a Canadian family. A mom was watching her 3 year-old daughter playing on their front porch in a remote area of British Columbia. The mom was inside of their house watching her child through a window. A black bear come onto the porch, grabbed the child, and skedaddled before the mom could react. She never again saw her daughter. I darn near cried.

I had an encounter with a huge blackie involving my then 9 year-old daughter in a parking lot of a marina in the Eastern Sierra. But for our loyal and best friend who detected him long before we did, well, I don't want to think about with could've happened. There's a very good reason our dog is spoiled. He thinks he runs our household. He might be right.

Black bears are more likely to kill and eat humans than griz. People who don't have respect for black bears are potential menu fare for them.

The only animal that troubles me is lion. You can't hear 'em coming. They kill my crushing the back of your neck. All I could hope for is a chance for one handgun shot.

I never carry a handgun while big game hunting. I'll always have a handgun very close by if not on my hip while I'm in camp.

BTW, my game warden friend asked me, many years ago, to climb the back side of Mt Baldy in the Angeles National Forest & kill a black bear. He was having a serious problem with blackies attacking and threatening hikers. He needed to reduce the blackie population pronto. I told him that I wasn't a fool. The San Gabriel Mountains are more rugged than the Rockies. They're straight up & straight down. It'd of taken me a week to pack a blackie off of Mt. Baldy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Gabriel_Mountains

Samson the Hot Tub Bear lived in the San Gabriels: http://articles.latimes.com/2001/may/16/local/me-64127 I saw him at the Orange County Zoo soon after he had been arrested & booked (captured) for trespassing. That dude had to go better than 750 pounds. Biologists had his weight at 800+ pounds. He was scheduled for execution (euthanized) because he had no fear of humans. It was predicted it was only a matter of time before he killed someone. Governor Davis pardoned him under the condition of confinement at the OC Zoo.
 
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