223 AI nipping on the heals of a 22-250

The Virginian

The Virginian

New member
I purchased a Cooper 223 AI this spring. It's a older rifle and I've had the chance to shoot several groundhogs with it this spring and summer. When I read about this statement "nipping on the heals of the 22-250", internally i said to myself, yeah right!

Well, after taking a few hogs at 300 to 400 yards, I have to say, it truly is amazing and the statement is correct. With the small powder charge, this may be my new go to for groundhogs. I'm interested in hearing from others about their experience with 223 AI.

Thanks,

Eric
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Going from memory when I was comparing the .223 and 22-250 I found an average gain of about 10% velocity across similar bullet weights, favoring the 22-250. The 250 used 30% more powder to gain the 10% advantage. Again, averages and memory.

I'm going off of on the books loads and intentionally ignoring the "I get 500000000000fps out of my loads and only use 1 grain of common table salt" comments that seem to pop up with the comparison
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Just math and load data.

Looking at the AI out of a longer barrel 10% gain over the standard .223 seems to be attainable in some bullet weights. So seems about right short of breaking out a chrony and rechambering a rifle, which I won't do.
 
Congrats on your new gun! I got a feeling that you are really going to enjoy it.

I just got back a few days ago from my annual prairie dog hunt in Wyoming. And as usual, the .223 AI went along and as usual it made a wonderful account for itself. Even though I had my 28" barreled .220 Swift with me, I grabbed the AI as often as the booming Swift. Why? Because I can tell very little difference between the two as far as killing power and I feel sure that the pasture poodles can tell no difference at all!


My longest prairie dog kill ever was just over 700 yards with my .223 AI Savage that I am holding in my avatar. 50 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips did the job just fine too.


If I had to take one and only one gun on a prairie dog hunt I would be fine and dandy taking my .223 AI.

 
I have one that I am working on loads for.

I generally like it quite a bit, and had good luck finding a fire form load.

So far I am still looking for my regular load.
 
It will "nip on the heels." Some don't like hearing that, but it does. My 22-250's are AI. But a current std. 22-250 is the fastest one I've had. Accuracy load is a 50@3925 using 37+gr. RL15 powder.

Most accurate 50gr load in the 223AI is doing 3825 with somewhere around 28gr of VV133 powder.....9gr less powder. People can compare that to their working 22-250 load and draw their own conclusion.

With the 22-250 shooting 40's, I've seen a 4200fps velocity number thrown around.....some people give slower speed. In my 223AI the 40gr accuracy load is 4100 or 4200 (1/2gr difference, same accuracy) using between 28 and 29gr of AA2015 powder. That's equal velocity. The barrel is 25" long, 14"twist, .250"nk, 0 freebore, IMI brass.

To me these 223AI loads are both in 22-250 territory. Still the cartridge seems to always stir up arguments. Some people don't believe it does what it does, claim "magic bullet," "unsafe pressure," etc. People who shoot it know what it does. It's a good one.
 
The Cooper is a very fine rifle.

The .223 Rem AI is a great cartridge.

"Nipping at the heals" means eating dust. I am not trying to take away from the 223 AI, but if, within 150fps or less is "nipping at the heals", then every magnum cartridge out there is no better than it's counter part. Let's at least keep the rhetoric real.

For busting dogs, the .222 Rem Mag is a great round, it does all that the 223 AI will, but a 22-250 she ain't.

The 223 class chamber is very versatile though and fun to shoot. It is efficient and productive. Every shooter or hunter needs at least one. It will never be more than it is though.
 
Originally Posted By: cowpokeI have one that I am working on loads for.

I generally like it quite a bit, and had good luck finding a fire form load.

So far I am still looking for my regular load.

Find the most accurate/fastest fireform load and you're there. Load with formed brass will be real easy to find.....a little more of the same powder.
 
Cartridges and velocities be damned. After seeing the picture of that Cooper I declare "YOU SUCK".
That's one caliber I'll be adding in the near future. Twisted 1-8" just for 75amax & 62gr TSX.
 
Originally Posted By: NdIndy

"Going from memory when I was comparing the .223 and 22-250 I found an average gain of about 10% velocity across similar bullet weights, favoring the 22-250. The 250 used 30% more powder to gain the 10% advantage. Again, averages and memory."



When you compare two cartridges, you must compare the powder increase, and the energy increase - NOT the velocity increase.

Powder is energy. If you were to double the powder and expect to get double the velocity, you would be expecting FOUR time the energy (energy = the square of the increase), and the laws of physics don't allow you to get energy for free.

It is the same with any other moving device - if you double the horsepower of a car, you only get 1.4 times the speed, NOT twice the speed - if you want twice the speed, you must increase the horsepower by a factor of 4.

For example, from the Sierra manual...

The 223 can get 3,500 fps with 28 grains of powder - it makes 1360 foot pounds of energy.

The 22-250 can get 3900 fps with 35 grains of powder - it makes 1700 foot pounds.

So, you have a 1.25% increase of powder, and you get a 1.25% increase on energy, with a
1.11% increase in speed...

BUT, if you do the SQUARE of the increase of the speed (1.114 x 1.114), you get (Ta-ta)...
1.240996 % increase.

All the numbers match - if you want to know the "Expected" increase of using more powder (at the same pressures and with the same barrel length) you compare the energies, NOT the velocities!!

When you say you used 30% more powder to get 10% more velocity it just does not mean a thing - you MUST compare the increase in powder and the increase in delivered energy.


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