.223 ammo question

E

evilstepdad

New member
Hello,

I have been reading a lot of post on here about everything that has to do with this round and I have a question about the ammo that is out there to buy, on here someplace (have read so much I can't remember where I saw the post)someone said that you should be cautious of buying military ammo as the specs are different and that it could ruin a rifle..

Can someone pleas let me know if this is so and just what the difference is?

Also, if any of you have thoughts on the Black Hills ammo (I know some of you do as I have used the search and read a lot of it)as it is a company that realodas military ammo etc.

As of now I do not plan on reloading so looking at trying to get ammo at a reasonable price to shoot. I don't have to have the cheapest stuff as I want to be able to hit what I am aiming at and actually shoot the rifle other than just make noise in a direction but I would like to shoot a lot.

I think you for your help, GREAT SITE!!

evilstepdad
 
Black Hills is great ammunition. I used their blue box ammo for years. Very accurate and great value for the money. You can not go wrong with this ammuntion. Try the 52 grain match hollow points.
 
As far as milspec ammo damaging a firearm...it depends on what you are shooting. Milspec is a hotter load, but is absolutely fine if your gun is made for it. Nato rounds are not quit as hot. What are you shooting?
 
Black Hills is good stuff in my experience, and the price is right. You might also consider the Winchester white box bulk pack at Wal-Mart (and some other places probably). It has shot pretty well in my guns, though the bullets used (45 grain HPs) are a little fragile at times. Great for making "red mist."
 
There is a slight difference between Military 5.56mm ammo and Commercial 223 ammo. The Remington 223 has a tighter chamber than the 5.56. Commercial guns are more likely to be compared for accuracy and military guns are more concerned about loading & ejecting cartridges rapidly.

Couple this with the fact that most military 5.56 brass is heavier than commercial 223 brass.

So if you shoot 5.56 ammo in a 223 chamber you POSSIBLY could have too much pressure.

Lots of people reload 5.56 brass into 223. This is fine as a 223 resizing die will size for a 223 chamber.

If you are shooting a 223 and buy remanufactured ammo (i.e. Black Hills) make sure the box is labled 223 even though the brass will probably be stamped Lake City 5.56 or some other military supplier.

If your gun is chambered for 5.56 don't worry about any of the above.
 
Hi,one time for you folks,this is importain!.223 Rem VS 5.56mm
There are a lot of questions about these two cartridges. Many people think they are identical; merely different designations for commercial and military. The truth is that, although somewhat similar, they are not the same and you should know the differences before buying either cartridge.
The cartridge casings for both calibers have basically the same length and exterior dimensions. The 5.56 round, loaded to Military Specification, typically has higher velocity and chamber pressure than the .223 Rem. The 5.56 cartridge case may have thicker walls, and a thicker head, for extra strength. This better contains the higher chamber pressure. However, a thicker case reduces powder capacity, which is of concern to the reloader. The 5.56mm and .223 Rem chambers are nearly identical. The difference is in the Leade. Leade is defined as the portion of the barrel directly in front of the chamber where the rifling has been conically removed to allow room for the seated bullet. It is also more commonly known as the throat. Leade in a .223 Rem chamber is usually .085. In a 5.56mm chamber the leade is typically .162, or almost twice as much as in the 223 Rem chamber. You can fire .223 Rem cartridges in 5.56mm chambers with this longer leade, but you will generally have a slight loss in accuracy and velocity over firing the .223 round in the chamber with the shorter leade it was designed for. Problems may occur when firing the higher-pressure 5.56mm cartridge in a .223 chamber with its much shorter leade. It is generally known that shortening the leade can dramatically increase chamber pressure. In some cases, this higher pressure could result in primer pocket gas leaks, blown cartridge case heads and gun functioning issues. The 5.56mm military cartridge fired in a .223 Rem chamber is considered by SAAMI (Small Arm and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute) to be an unsafe ammunition combination.

Before buying either of these two types of ammunition, always check your gun to find what caliber it is chambered for, then buy the appropriate ammunition. Most 5.56mm rounds made have full metal jacket bullets. Performance bullets; soft points, hollow points, Ballistic Silvertips, etc. are loaded in .223 Rem cartridges. Firing a .223 Rem cartridge in a 5.56mm-chambered gun is safe and merely gives you slightly reduced velocity and accuracy. However we do not recommend, nor does SAAMI recommend, firing a 5.56mm cartridge in a gun chambered for the .223 Rem as the shorter leade can cause pressure-related problems.Thanks Clint.
 
Thank You all for the informative replies. I guess the only question now is if the black hills ammo is good to go. I am taking that if they reload the military ammo and they are selling as .223 then they must be making all of the right changes for a .223 rifle.

Again Thanks and Thank You for the welcome,

evilstepdad
 
Welcome to the board Evil.

Black Hills is quality ammo, I have shot 10's of thousands of rounds of it. Their re-man uses Lake City brass/ military once fired as I have used all my loading life. There is no problem with it.

As for the 5.56 vs .223, I have shot more rounds of this than I can count and have never looked to see what a barrel is chambered for. I have never seen or experienced a problem with this. The simple fact that mil or 5.56 ammo is generally not worth wasting the powder and bullet when fired for accuracy purposes, I can't see a reason for shooting it. However, this is just my opinion.
 
Look at the packaging. If Black Hills ( or any other reputable manufacture) calls it 223 ammo and lables it as such, then that is what it is and you should be safe to shoot it in a gun chambered for 223.
 
This whole thing about the: 223 vs 5.56 vs Wilde chambers is much ado about nothing unless you are seating long bullets to a length that will not fit in the magazine. If you are doing that you probably already know all you need to know to do it safely.

Anything that will fit in the magazine can be safely fired in any of the chambers. Except for the leade, which is only a consideration with ammo that will not fit in the magazine, the allowed tolerances for the chambers are more than the differences in the 3 chamberings.

Don't believe me, check the chamber prints! Most reamer grinders will fax them to you for free.

Jack
 
I have used Black Hills stuff on several occassions and it has always performed flawlessly, it's good stuff. I also can't tell you how many 10's of thousands of rounds of military ball ammo I have burned up in the many years of shooting 223 caliber rifles. Everything from single shot pistols to bump firing AR15's. I have AR's that have seen darn near every manufactured round available and I've handloaded 223 using Lake City brass for years. All of it has cycled through my guns rather they be 223 or 5.56 cut chambers, never a problem, no kabooms, broken bolts, etc. Except for the occassional split neck from trying to squeeze every possible reload out of some of the brass I never had a problem. The differences in pressures are not enough to cause a concern in most firearms. The biggest problems come from improper headspacing or using cheap parts sometimes called the "killer deal" gun show parts.

If the military ammo from various countries were causing kabooms in 100's of rifles, carbines and auto pistols around the world, we would have heard about it by now. Nothing gets past the internet these days. Over pressure is over rated. The small case capacity of the 223/5.56 just won't allow a firearm to explode and take off your head.

I spoke to the Washington State Patrol crime lab tech regarding high pressures in firearms. He teseted a 7.62x39 AK47 clone by removing the bullet, stuffing the case full to the top of bullseye powder then stuffing the bullet back into the case. (yes he is all set up to do complete reloading in his lab) It took him three of these special loads to finally get a kaboom and the results were, the mag popped out the bottom of the receiver and blew the top dust cover off. The rifle was fine in every other fashion, no barrel damage, no bolt in the face etc.

DSA has a video of a firearm they tested in a lab with showing INTENDED destruction of an FAL using proof loads. It's not likely one would ever find these kinds os pressures in military ball ammo or ever see the results using 5.56 ammo in a 223 chamber.

Always use eye and ear protection anyway.

Here is the link to DSA.

http://www.dsarms.com/pressure_test.cfm
 
Black Hills Blue Box will make ya wanna quit reloading. It is so accurate that you wonder why you cannot do that well at home!
 
I had excessive chamber pressures in my 223 bullberry barrel. I shot 1 rd. with headstamp mal 9-81, I had to drive the pin out to get the action open. I sure won't try the contender or encore barrels just to see if the do the same.
 
Thank You all for your information and with that I would ask you one more question, if you are using or have used the Black Hills ammo, where have you found to be a reliable place to buy it and how much do they usually charge for shipping?

Again, Thank You

evilstepdad
 


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