223 remington pressure signs is it to high?

Y

yoteblaster

Active member
I think I already know the answer but I need a little help with some photos. I am loading 223 Remington rounds. This is what I have worked up for my Remington 700. 27.0 grains of H335 behind a Sierra 55 grain SBT in Lake City brass. The gun shoots these rounds the best of all loading I have done. When fired the rounds eject fine with no signs of pressure found on the case. The primer does show some signs of pressure. Take a look at the pics and let me know what you think and if I can keep using this load. I compared these to some of the factory rounds I have for my 270 and see very much the same primer image. The max load listed in the Sierra manuel is 27.5 grains of 335. Also I am using CCI small rifle primers. I don't see any ejector marks on the case or leakage.

IMG_0597.jpg
 
I'll be interested to see what other guys say also.
I've noticed the LC brass doesn't show pressure(flattened primers) quite like some others. I assume it's because of the rounded lip(on the case)where the primer meets the case.
My 2 cents is,When I get a crater like that, I back off.
confused.gif
 
Interesting about the Sierra load reccomendations. My Hornady book shows for a 55 grn Bullet, 23.2 of H 335 as being a max load, and My Nosler book says a Max of 25.0. 27 grns seems high for what I see. I have a Lee manual that says 25.3 as a high. Look forward to hearing about this. Lots of different loads published.
 
My Sierra Loading Manual lists 25.9 grains of H-335 as the max powder charge for 55 grain bullets in the 223 Rem.????
 
Last edited:
Ditto! I'm still testing and trying to get hold of H335. But I've had great success with that bullet at 26.4 of Varget in my Savage Model 12 VLP .223. Just as a side note, have you felt the casing right after ejection as to the temp of it? I know thats not very scientific, but it give me an idea of just how "hot" the load is in terms of pressure because the heavies and "max loads" seems to sizzle if you know what I mean. But by no means use that as a sole indicator for "pressure." I never go beyond the "max load" listed in any of the manuals.
 
yoteblaster, My advice would be to pick up one of Hodgdon's reloading manuals (usually free where you buy your powder) and use their published data as a starting point on working up loads with their powder...

I have a lot of respect for Sierra and other bullet manufacturers, as well as their load testing for their bullets, but they shoot through test barrels that are precision cut and with a different wear factor than yours.

I'm not suggesting that you cannot go over what works best for your firearm when using other specifications, just start with the powder manufacturer's figures first, to be on the safe side..

As noted on this thread, there are a lot of different figures being quoted from different sources...You really need to do your own work and evaluation...And, I use a lot of those same sources...I just rarely take anything on the internet as 'gospel'..
 
Turtle I hear what you are saying. I think I will start way low and just go up until I see the pressure signs start again. I hope I can find a load that shoots as well. But I guess a group that is not as good is better than a blown out eye.
 
One point I would like to make is that military cases don't have the same capacity as Federal cases which is what Sierra used in their tests. Another point is that cratered primers may mean there is excess space between the firing pin and the bolt face. The only reliable sign of pressure is a pressure barrel. If you are not experiencing difficult bolt lift I don't think it is seriosly over-pressure but I would be careful.
 
Like everyone else, the 3 sources I am looking at for 335 pushing a 55 gr bullet (including Hodgdon's website) ~25.3 is around the max load. I always check more than one source if at all possible when loading a new load.

If you push this load to the point where you DO get brass deforming or leakage, you're probably already WAY to high.

If it were me, and I knew that per some guides I was already well over max (as in 10% over max, which you are) I'd assume the primers are telling me a story and I would back off.

but that's just me
smile.gif


--Duck911
 
I think I am going to try and find some Federal or Winchester brass and see what it looks like after that. The load shoots fantastic out of my gun and it is perfect for coyotes, rarely exits and drops then like a ton of [beeep]. My friend is shooting the same load out of his ruger 223 I am going to take a look at his empties. I bet I have fired well over a hundred of these and my friend has shot about the same out of his Ruger.
 
Is it a fairly new gun ? If so some of the new remingtons crater primers at low pressure lvls never mind high pressure sloppy large firing pin hole. That being said yeah yer loads are fairly smokin. Was just curious how new gun was I see the crater on my new swift SVF but am below max charge on all my diff loads and still see it.
 
Those look "interesting".
confused.gif


If you're going to back off the load and start over, you may want to consider going to mag primers at the same time. I've found that spherical powders like H335 and W748 give better performance with a hotter primer. Speer also recommends that combination.
I quit at 25.0 grs. of H335 with 55 gr. bullets, since I was getting my best accuracy right there. It's a fairly mild load, but I'm not sure I could increase to 27.0.
A chronograph would be a really good thing for you to have at this point, in my opinion.
wink.gif


If you wight the LC brass, I doubt you'll see much difference from commercial brass. From what I saw, that "military brass is thicker" is bogus. .308 and 7.62 NATO is significantly different, but .223 and 5.56 are all the same weight (+/- a few grains) in every example I have here.

Quote:...sloppy large firing pin hole.

That's what I'm thinking, too.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: yoteblasterI think I already know the answer but I need a little help with some photos. I am loading 223 Remington rounds. This is what I have worked up for my Remington 700. 27.0 grains of H335 behind a Sierra 55 grain SBT in Lake City brass. The gun shoots these rounds the best of all loading I have done. When fired the rounds eject fine with no signs of pressure found on the case. The primer does show some signs of pressure. Take a look at the pics and let me know what you think and if I can keep using this load. I compared these to some of the factory rounds I have for my 270 and see very much the same primer image. The max load listed in the Sierra manuel is 27.5 grains of 335. Also I am using CCI small rifle primers. I don't see any ejector marks on the case or leakage.

IMG_0597.jpg


The Sierra manual I have does list 27.5g as a max load same as yours but I have to say that models as a smoking hot load as others have mentioned (all the bullet companies have some smoking hot loads for one or another cartridge - the hottest I've ever found was in a Nosler manual but that's another story for another day). They say 3,300 fps in the manual and I get 3,345 fps in QuickLoad (using a 22" barrel), which is excellent agreement, using the 30.49 water grain capacity for Winchester fired brass as it comes out of my CZ. The pressure shows as 59,583 psi which is over the 55,000 psi SAAMI max for the cartridge, but won't blow the rifle up either. Might be a bit harder on it from the point of bolt pounding but the 700 action is really strong and rated for much more powerful cartridges that make the .223 look like being pounded with a Q-Tip.

It's hot, but it shoots for you too, and I can't say for sure the predicted pressure are accurate but with the MV so close the pressures probably aren't far off.

If it were me, I'd back off and work up again to see if there is another sweet spot at a reasonable velocity. Some times there is, some times there isn't.

With out knowing the actual water grain capacity of your fired brass I can't say much more.

Fitch
 
Last edited:
Evil Lurker told it right about military 223 brass. I have 500 pieces of L.C. 06 brass that has more capacity than Win. brass. I would leave Federal brass alone. It is softest brass out there, and does not handle higher pressures well. Primer flattening is not a reliable indicator of pressure. Nor is primer cratering. That can happen at moderate pressures if your firing pin hole is sloppy. I depend on bolt lift, and measuring case head expansion. Learn your rifle. They are all different.

PaPa 260
 
Quote:I have 500 pieces of L.C. 06 brass that has more capacity than Win. brass.

Yeah, I didn't want to say that, but I have some LC that's actually lighter than commercial brass, too. Whether that was always the case, or if they originally made .223 Remington with thinner cases, I'm not sure.

I believe Guatemala has some extra-thick 5.56 cases from the data I've seen.It will be headstamped I.M.G.

Never seen one, but they would be worth investigating before you decided to use them.
 
I chrono'd them when I first started shooting them and they are right at 3300 fps. out of a 22inch barrel rather than a 24 inch barrel. The manuel says it should be 3300 with 27.5 grains out of a 24inch barrel. So it is a bit over what the book says but not alot. So now I am a bit confused is the primer a good way to tell presure? I would like to keep using these through the winter and look at it when it warms up a bit but I am not interested in the gun blowing up. I will look at one fired from my buddys Ruger and see what his look like.
 
The only experience I have was with 221 fireball, when Remington came out with the classic in that caliber it was hard to find brass so I made some from LC cases. Comparing them with rem cases I found the loads in the LC brass were about 100 fps faster than the ones in the rem brass. Same bullet, same powder charge, same primer. The loads in the rem cases were doing 3300 over the screens and the LCs were doing 3400. I just assumed there was less capacity in the LC brass.
 
When did you work the load up? Was the weather warm? Are you getting a heavy bolt lift? Just becuase you got a little higher velocity out of a 22" barrel than is listed for a 24" does not mean you are running excessively high pressure, some barrels are just faster than others. I have an AR15 with a 20" barrel that gives velocities within 25 fps of the same load in a 24" bolt action. If I were you I would run it. Shoot it when the weather warms up and if you aren't getting a heavy bolt lift of sticky extraction you are fine. One thing about ball powders, they are more temp sensitive than extruded powders.

Different manuals give different powder charges for the same weight of bullet because there are so many variables. Thickness of the jacket material, bearing surface, lead core make up (antimony content), tighter barrels and so on. For example in one of my bolt action 223's 24.5 gr of N133 is maximum in it behind a 50 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip. With the 50 gr. Sierra BlitzKing I can run up to 26.2 gr before I start to see pressure indicators. Bottom line, if you are using Sierra bullets go by the data in the Sierra manual, like wise with Hornady, use the Hornady manual, same with Nosler use the Nosler manual. If you are only going to get data from one manual, back off the maximum powder charge for that weight bullet by at least 2 grains and work up from there.

I hope this has helped some and not confused you.

PaPa 260
 
Those rounds were fired with the temp at about 20 degrees farenheit. I am geting no other signs of high pressure than the primer. The bolt opens fine the case doesn't show anything that would indicate high pressure except that darn primer. I am going to fire a factory load and see what it looks like.
 


Write your reply...
Back
Top