223 twists = velocity

i’ve never sat down and put all the same caliber guns with different twists through my chronograph, but I can tell you the ones with the faster twist at close to the same velocity seem to make Bigger holes. My POF is a one and eight twist and I don’t remember what my 223 LTR is I think it might be a one and nine? I load 60 grain V-max in both. There’s about 100 ft./s difference and I’ve shot coyotes with both. The slower twist LTR at 100 ft./s slower you normally can’t see holes going in and you don’t get an exit. The faster twist POF at the same distance on coyotes. You still can’t see the whole coming in but I get a consistent about the size of a quarter to 50 Cent piece. I still haven’t determined that if going 100 ft./s slower keeps the bullet together and I get exits or if it’s the faster twist… I’m guessing it’s the faster twist.
 
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Type/number of lands, bore diameter and quality of lapping(if any), would also effect velocity. As would the shape and jacket material of the bullet. So thinking a 1/12 will have faster velocity than same length 1/9, or vise versa may not be true. Chamber characteristics would also play into velocities seen.
 
A faster twist will "absorb" more energy to spin the bullet up faster. If all other things are equal, a slower twist rate should produce a higher velocity. But like others said, there are many factors that go into this. Different powders/loads. Different throat depth. Number and type of rifling grooves. Barrel diameter tolerance.
 
I had no clue that rifle bullets have such a high RPM rate.

Many years ago I watched my son shoot some ground squirrels with Hornady Superformance 35 gr NTX 223 ammo at just over 4,000 fps and those bullets launched and blew up squirrels more and farther than any bullet I had ever seen.

Bullet Spin Rate Calculator - Calculator Academy

Enter the muzzle velocity (fps) and the barrel twist rate into the Calculator. The calculator will evaluate the Bullet Spin Rate. Bullet Travel Time
calculator.academy

Check out the above link to see about what your bullet RPM rate is. A 3500 fps bullet out of a 1-12" twist barrel is about 210,000 RPM. A 4000 fps bullet out of a 1-9" twist barrel is about 320,000 RPM.
 
seek1 said:
40 to 60 grain bullets. 24” barrel. What twist rate will give the highest velocity?
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Too many variables to give an accurate answer.

Even barrels can vary quite a bit in fps with the same loads.

Accuracy before velocity, I would probably go with a 10" twist.
 

FAQ – Hodgdon Powder Company

hodgdonpowderco.com

This is a copy and paste from Hodgon. You can look it up yourself by scrolling down not too far.

Does rifling twist affect the internal ballistics such as the peak pressure?


No, within the normal twist envelopes being used in small arms manufacturing, this effect is negligible to insignificant. The twist contributes to the stability of the projectile in flight i.e. external ballistics. A mistake which is often made is that two separate barrels are compared with different twists and when results (pressure and velocity) are obtained it is subsequently ascribed to the twist. (See question below). The only clinical way to determine the effect is to compare two identical bore groove barrels from the same base stock and then cut the chambers with the same reamer. We did this at Western powders lab and the internal ballistics were the same.
 
I have two 6.5 PRC rifles. Winchester M70 1:8/Browning X-Bolt 1:7. (both 24 inch barrels)

143gr ELD-X bullets touch the lands at exactly 3.0" COAL on both, with the same test bullet.

The M70 shoots identical loads at least 120fps faster. Interchanging loads means stiff bolt lift!

Reading in the Speer Manual, I read that 9mm pistol loads reach max pressure before the bullet has left the case. Seems they also said that rifles produce max pressure very early on. This is by memory, and i fear it is incorrect.... But i want to re-call they said 2 inches.

This can explain why chamber pressures/velocities degrade as your chamber throat degrades if you think about it.
 
I am looking at getting Remington 700, 24" or 26" barrel in 223.
I want to set one rifle to shoot 40 to 55 grain bullets and another rifle to shoot 68gr. and up.

So do you think I should get the one for the lighter bullets in a 1-12 twist or just get an 8 twist for both.

Thanks
 
seek1 said:
I am looking at getting Remington 700, 24" or 26" barrel in 223.
I want to set one rifle to shoot 40 to 55 grain bullets and another rifle to shoot 68gr. and up.

So do you think I should get the one for the lighter bullets in a 1-12 twist or just get an 8 twist for both.

Thanks
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An 8 twist will shoot light and heavy bullets so I would skip the 12 twist.
 
Personally I'd get a 12 twist 223 and a 223AI 8 twist(at least) for the heavies at least you can tell them apart by look and feel but still be able to use inexpensive brass.

A lot would depend on your uses also, I wouldn't want to take a heavy target rifle calling predators nor take a rifle set up for calling predators out shooting colony varmints.
 
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seek1 said:
40 to 60 grain bullets. 24” barrel.
What twist rate will give the highest velocity?
Click to expand...

Actually ... it doesn't matter. The difference between a 1:8 and a 1:12 would be so insignificant that it would take a chronograph to tell the difference. Out to about 500 yards the difference might start to show. I have a couple of 1:8 guns that shoot 60 grain bullets into cloverleafs. And I don't know what the speed is. I actually don't care! If I'm looking at ranges that speed variances might make a difference I'll be shooting something other than a 223. And I can assure you that anything I have shot is just as dead as it would have been with a bullet going a few feet faster.

My question to you is: Why are you worried about velocity with a 223 in the first place? Find a load that is a reasonable speed and shoots tiny groups and be done with it.

A 1:8 twist will stabilize most anything from 40 on up (within reason).
 
Hidalgo said:
Actually ... it doesn't matter. The difference between a 1:8 and a 1:12 would be so insignificant that it would take a chronograph to tell the difference. Out to about 500 yards the difference might start to show. I have a couple of 1:8 guns that shoot 60 grain bullets into cloverleafs. And I don't know what the speed is. I actually don't care! If I'm looking at ranges that speed variances might make a difference I'll be shooting something other than a 223. And I can assure you that anything I have shot is just as dead as it would have been with a bullet going a few feet faster.

My question to you is: Why are you worried about velocity with a 223 in the first place? Find a load that is a reasonable speed and shoots tiny groups and be done with it.

A 1:8 twist will stabilize most anything from 40 on up (within reason).
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My question to you is: Why are you worried about velocity
To push the envelope on speed. On one rifle in 223.
Get the highest speed then make the speed accurate.
Always shot for most accurate and never thought abought speed. Going to play with speed.
Fun either way :)
 
seek1 said:
I am looking at getting Remington 700, 24" or 26" barrel in 223.
I want to set one rifle to shoot 40 to 55 grain bullets and another rifle to shoot 68gr. and up.

So do you think I should get the one for the lighter bullets in a 1-12 twist or just get an 8 twist for both.

Thanks
Click to expand...
With no proof, or evidence, I believe a barrel with more twist than necessary can ever so slightly affect accuracy. Whatever slight bullet imperfections will be magnified at extreme RPM's. It is also thought that bullets travel in an orbital fashion down range. The people who believe that, believe less spin, equals less orbital variation.

Another factor to consider is thin jacket bullets will come apart in the air at high velocity/rmp. The makers manual normally warns you of the twist/velocity envelope.

How RPM effects bullet integrity at impact has been debated by the older generations.

If i was going to have a dedicated light bullet rifle, 1:12 is all that is needed. When i get a load combo that shoots well, i don't screw around anymore. Fussing with the perfect powder charge window, messing with it in different seasons, perfect zeroes, and confirming it multiple times is a PITA. I do it once. Then use the rifle with high confidence and great pleasure.

The beauty of 1:9 is it will shoot up to 73 grain Berger target bullets fine. That twist also shoots 55 grain bullets into tiny clover leafs.

Many have reported 1:7 twist barrels doing the same though. A 1:8 lets you take in the whole catalog with less limitations. You may find your barrel does not like 50 grain bullets, yet loves the new Hornady ELD-VT bullets?

Outside of high power rifle competition shooting, If i was going to build a target rifle, set up for heavy match target bullets, I would not choose 223 Rem.
 
Why not? Well, I suppose that you could try to make a speed demon out of a 22 Hornet if you so desired. But what did Eastwood say? ....... A man has to know his limitations? Same goes for cartridges. There are several out there that will leave a 223 in the dust, even with moderate loads.

Why are you wanting to push the 223 to the limit? Not sure any of us understand your motive or anticipated end result. Sure, you can crank it out there until you get demonstrative pressure signs, but I highly doubt that you will be able to maintain MOA afterwards.

I see you're new here, and everyone is going to offer assistance if asked. But most of us just don't understand why you want to crank up a moderately fast cartridge? Nothing to really be gained, imo.
 
I have had real good accuracy and velocity with H4895, AA2015, Benchmark and N135. (55 grain bullets)

W748 is my control powder. It does not produce the velocities of these others, with lighter bullets. With 69 grain bullets, that is a different story.

I can get 2950-3000 fps with these powders safely, w/o pressure out of a 16 inch barreled AR15. (55 grain bullets)

I shoot a lot of Raccoons and Coyotes with these combos. Sierras 55 grain HPBT #1390 and Nosler 55 grain Ballistic Tip bullets meet, and exceed all my terminal and accuracy performance requirements.

When spring time comes, i plan to run a few tests with Power Pro Varmint. I have a bit of it i want to try out. W748 is really the only ball powder i have had much luck with.
 
Not a new shooter just interested in what others think.

There is no real reason, it is just something I am going to do and when I get done playing with the 223, I am going do the same thing with a 223AI.

This is just with one rifle. I have others to make cloverleafs.

Why 223, It is cheaper to shoot and I have components for it.



I ask one time on a different forum if you were going to hunt water buff (black death) and the rang is 500 yards what caliber would you use.
Clearly stated that I was not going to do this but was interested in the cartridge, only two people gave cartridge information everybody else went off in a different direction.
It was not abought been ethical, legal or wise, It was abought the cartridge. It is Just for study and thought.

I ask question on a forum because I want your thought on the question and when people give an answer pertaining to the question, I study it.

This is a great forum keep up the good work.

Thanks
 


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