223AI...Pros and Cons?

H

Hunt

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Contemplating setting up a 223AI. For those of you that shoot one, what are the pros and cons? I want something that will reach out there a little farther than the 223, easy to find brass and good barrel life. That leaves out the .204, .22-250 and .243.
 
Here is my .02$.

It really cuts back on the brass stretching, I hate trimming brass.

It will close the gap with the 22-250 in the speed dept. It wont run with it, but close enough. It does this with less powder, less barrel heat, less recoil (not really an issue with the '250), less noise. You don't need a yard of barrel out front to get those velocities, cheaper brass (relatively speaking). It really is a fun little chambering.

I have heard of guys having feeding issues, but mine has none. Some guys claim that forming brass is a PITA and takes away from barrel life. I have found that there is no reason to go out and form cases just to form them, unless you can't wait. I have also gotten very good acc from FF loads, I use them for hunting and do not give it a second thought. You are still shooting a .223 afterall.

My FF load is pushing a 55gr at ~3350 and has accounted for a fair number of 'chucks.
 
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Not having any reference resources handy, how does the AI compare to the old .222 magnum? I have one of those - a Rem. 700 .222 rechambered to the magnum round. I haven't had it long and just started playing around with loads. I was able to shoot it before I bought it, and accuracy looks promising - under an inch for 5 at 100 yards. Just wondered how the AI would compare ballistically, since the .222 mag has a bit more case capacity than the .223, seems like they might be close.
 
I've had a 223AI for a few years now and have no complaints at all. There are two thoughts on this round. Take little bullets and run them as hard as posible. or Get a bit more performance from heavy bullets. I went with pushing heavy bullets harder than you can with a standard 223 case. The rifle I built has a 1:10 twist, this limits me to a ~69gr match bullet, If I were to do it again I'd go with a 1:9 or a 1:8 with the 1:9 being my likely choice. Don't let anybody fool you, a 223 pushing a heavy bullet can be very effective out to 500yds, I'm not saying that I'd generally go after coyotes at 500, but if conditions are right my 223AI will most certainly get the job done ...... as a matter of fact, it helped me win the PM egg shoot last year. Now that was a day, wind, rain, snow, mud .....
 
I went the 1-8" route with mine. I am mostly shooting the 75Amax, it will shoot the 50's well also. I made kill's on woodchucks out to about 400yds with the 50's. The wind pushes that little bullet around alot though, I like the 75's for playing around at any distance over 300.

6GUNSONLY, I have no exp. with the 222mag. I can easily run the 50's at 3600 with a 22" barrel. I have ran them as fast as 3750 but that was really pushing it and way too hard on the brass. My 3600 load is fine in all temps and I have never had any pressure issues with that load.
 
75gr bullets are nice, I'd be using them, but my rifle tops out at 67/68/69gr bullets. It really liked some old 64gr Bergers I had, but after the company was sold I couldn't get the same bullet any more, the ones I did get did not perform nearly as well. Good ol' cheap Hornady 67gr match bullets give me a lot of bang for the buck.

My 30" 1:9 22-250AI eats Hornady 75gr match bullets like Carter makes pills. 5-600 yd PD's would just lay down and quiver with this gun ..... that is if I can ever get out after PD's again.
 
If your not a high volume shooter it should work great, great case life, inexspensive brass and relativly high velocity for the amount of powder burned. If you have to have 500 round of loaded ammo for a PD hunt that's alot of fireforming.

Depending on barrel length the 222 Mag should be about 100 fps behind the AI.

For 223 AI speeds without the FF I'm building a 22-204, the reamer just arived today and I'll be rechamberring a 1-9 223Rem barrel tomorrow, I hope.

AWS
 
what are you expecting out of the 22-204, that the .223, .222Mag, or .223AI won't give? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
The speed of the AI with out FF and a better selection of brass than the 222 Rem Mag, can be loaded without having custom dies made and easily chamberred with existing reamers although I did have a reamer built. It is about as much as you can get out of a small boltfaced rifle without radical case forming.

I've been shooting a 25-204 for about a year now and it has worked out great, matching factory 250-3000 ballistics and has proven to be very effective on deer as has the 250. The 22-204 and 6mm-204 are just a natural progression with this case. I had a good little 223 barrel laying here so I started on that for now. The 6mm-204 will be next years project.

AWS
 
I have read about your 25-204 project with open ears for the past year or 2....I remember your post's about 87's at 3K, pretty much at .250Sav velocities...

What are you opinions of that wildcat, after spending some time with it?
 
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Not having any reference resources handy, how does the AI compare to the old .222 magnum?



They are the same... and the 222 Mag has more neck. If you have a throat/bullet combination that allows seating out far to the lands, the 222 Mag will be ever so slightly superior to the 223 AI... but the differences are so tiny, that it is "Angles on the head of a pin".

I have heard the old thing about longer life with AI cases, and in some cases (.270 and 30-06) it is very true.

But I have eight 223 rifles, and shoot a ton of bullets through them, and I have never had problems with case stretching. They will last forever.

The down side of a .223 AI is that most chambers will vary substantially from each other... so getting dies that fit the fired cases can be a problem.

.
 
brdeano

I love it, it's a little tough on fur with the 75gr HPs but I did get a bunch of Barnes 75gr X bullets and will try them this year. I also have a batch of 60gr plain base cast bullets intended for the 25-20 that shoot great over a light charge of 800X. I liked the loading so much that instead of switching the Savage back to 223 I bought another 223 and will leave the 25-204 as is.

PICT0015-2.jpg


I've put a 1x4 VX-II on the rifle since this picture was taken.

AWS
 
I added appr 100yd more range with the 223AI over a 223. Since I also shoot a 223 and have a good load for that I used the same load in the 223AI to fire form my case and that load shot good enough that I used it on PD. The advantage of the AI is you can fire standard 223 or 223AI brass in fact I like the 223AI and I have two of them now.
 
Last winter I had my Sako Vixen rebarreled to 223AI. IMHO it's all pros and no cons. Mine is 1/12 twist because I shoot 50 grain bullets through it exclusively. It's strictly a predator rifle. I can also shoot 40 grain bullets if I so desire. For coyotes I don't much care for the heavier bullets.

As far as the comparison with the 222 Mag I totally disagree that they are on a par. Max velocities out of my 222 mag produced poor groups and I shot 50 gr Blitz bullets moving close to 3400 fps. Groups were barely acceptable for hunting. Because of the short magazine of the L461 action I had to seat the bullets deep and the gun had lots of freebore. I wanted a shorter cartridge that gave me a better option. The 223 velocities are lower than the 222 Mag but in choosing the 223 AI I thought I'd be getting the best of both worlds. Right now I'm shooting a Sierra 50 gr Spitzer at 3560 fps and it consistantly groups under 1/4" at 100 yards. This is through a Krieger matched Sako Vixen contour sporter barrel. With a little more work I know I can squeeze at least another 100 fps out of it. That's brushing right up against 22-250 velocities without the barrel wear.

One word of advice. I was very lucky with my L461 action. The cartridges don't feed as smoothly as standard 223 rounds but neither did the 222 Mag.s. But they feed relatively good. I know for a fact that if you chamber your Remington in 223 AI you will most likely encounter feed problems. I sent my rifle to Krieger to have the barrel fitted and they said they will not do any gunsmithing to correct any feed problems. I'd have a competent gunsmith fit the barrel and work out any problems you may encounter.

The rifle is a sweetheart to carry and shoot and I love the caliber. I'd like to make a bench gun in the 223 AI. Also, as has been stated above, you'll find that standard 223 cartidges will produce very accurate results. I just loaded up a bunch of old Sierra 52 gr HPBT with some IMR 4895 powder that I had an abundance of and took the rifle to the range. I was surprised at the tiny one hole groups I was getting.
 
I never thought much of the idea of an Ackley improved 223 until I read an article by Steve Timms, in The Varmint Hunters Magazine, published in January of 1997. Having a healthy respect for Steve's opinion, I decided to build myself one. It's on a Remington action with a 1-12 twist Shilen SS barrel.

I shoot 40 grain V-Max with a powder I dislike immensely. Running at over 3900 fps with a little over 30 grains of H335, the rifle will stack bullets. It is one of the most accurate varmint rifles I have. If a guy wants a 22 caliber wildcat, this is the one to have.
 
"know for a fact that if you chamber your Remington in 223 AI you will most likely encounter feed problems."

I have to agree. The 700 action is too big to even feed the 223 reliably. It works OK for most hunting situations but for rapid fire stroking like in NRA competition it is very hard to make it feed reliably. I tried shooting a 40X(same action as the 700) in competition and gave it up because nobody could get it to feed reliably for the rapid fire.

Jack
 
Guys,
I certainly appreciate all this feedback. All of this talk really has me thinking about what to do. I may perform a trial run with a rebarrel on a Stevens 200 before I go all out on a custom rig. Thanks for all the info.
 
My 223AI didn't feed well in my M700 action until I lightly (An I mean Lightly, you don't want to alter the feed rails much in an action) polished my feed rails. I must admit that I've never run the action hard as Jack has, but in hunting situations or on the bench mine has been reliable. The 22-250AI feeds less well, but it still feeds.
 
I've been thinking of rebarreling my Remington 700 VLS into a .223AI (its presently a .204 Ruger, but I will have two others in that caliber soon). It will be purely a bench gun (it pretty much is now, anyway), so will these feed issues pose a significant obstacle ?
 
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