224 Valkyrie bolt gun

J

jpr423

New member
So I have been doing some research on the 224 and almost every article talks about AR platforms but nothing on a bolt gun. Looking at the ballistics it seems like this could be a great caliber for a bolt gun shooting both short and long range on coyotes. Basically a smaller version of the 6.5

What would be the downsides to having one in a bolt action for coyotes?
 
I think the main advantage of anything created off the 6.8 cartridge is the ability to fit in an AR15 magazine. With a bolt action there are less limitations and better choices.
 
As to your question the only down side's would be magazine feeding issues and odd size bolt face, both are an easy fix though. Me personally I just don't see the appeal of this cartridge in a bolt action. It would be much simpler to just build a fast twist 22-250 Remington, plus you would get better ballistics. Although if your not a reloader then I guess the 224v in a bolt gun kinda makes since.
 
Originally Posted By: MPFDI'd rather run a fast twist 22-250 chambered for 90 grain bullets.

I'd rather run a 1-10/243win with 90 grain bullets.
Like I do now. In my bolt guns and my one AR.
I do not know where this 90gr 22-250 crap came from.
22-250 is for speed not this junk.
Remington created the 22-250 to run against the 220 swift and lost.
 
Originally Posted By: willy1947
Remington created the 22-250 to run against the 220 swift and lost.



The .22-250 had been in common use for three decades before Remington took interest in it. And they weren't even the first major manufacturer to offer the .22-250, Browning was.

And my take, the '250 beat the holy crap out of the Swift. In the only areas either company cared about, which were rifle and ammo sales. The '250 just beat the tar out of the Swift. And is still vastly more popular than the Swift.

- DAA
 
Originally Posted By: willy1947Originally Posted By: MPFDI'd rather run a fast twist 22-250 chambered for 90 grain bullets.

I'd rather run a 1-10/243win with 90 grain bullets.
Remington created the 22-250 to run against the 220 swift and lost.


Right you are, Willy. My 1/10" twist .243 AI is all I would ever want for those 600+ yard shots. Just last month I sent an 635 yard Idaho rock chuck flying with a 70 grain Sierra Blitzking. Took off as if he had sat on a land mine.

Love my .22/250 and my .220 Swift even more so. But when it comes to making those "outchonder" shots I'm reaching for something with a bit more long range thump than a fast twist .224" bore.
 
Originally Posted By: DAA

And my take, the '250 beat the holy crap out of the Swift. In the only areas either company cared about, which were rifle and ammo sales. The '250 just beat the tar out of the Swift. And is still vastly more popular than the Swift.

- DAA

Well gee, Dave! When Remington introduced the .22/250 as a factory round there were no longer any manufacturers making .220 Swifts as a regular production gun. Took another 10 years before Bill Ruger decided to make a limited run of M77V's in .220 Swift just to see what would happen. Sales were better than he had hoped and right away the Swift became a regular chambering. Made the excellent Number One in them too. Later we had Savage make the fine 112 in .220 Swift in repeater as well single shot. Sure wish I had one of the latter in my safe right now!

After Winchester dropped the Swift from its lineup back in the early '60's (dumass move, guys!) ammo makers soon followed. Remington saw the opportunity (smart move, guys!) to come out with the decades old .22/250 as a factory round and..wham! Sales were better than sunblock at a nudist beach.

I have them both the .22/250 and the .220 Swift. They both shoot great and they both have killed their fair share of critters over the years. But when I open my safe my .220 is sitting right close to the front where I can grab it easily when I want to go scatter some small animals. The '250? Somewhere in the back I suppose. Not unloved but-you know- it aint a .220 Swift. It just wishes it was.
 
But........when you Ackley Improve the 250, like mine is, it will run right along side the Swift. And the cases look really cool too! !And if I want to shoot 90 grain bullets, I get the 243 out. Just can't get on this whiz bang cartridge wagon that so many other have. But its not my money,I won't tell you how to spend it.
 
Originally Posted By: pyscodogBut........when you Ackley Improve the 250, like mine is, it will run right along side the Swift.

That's true, Bill. But you have to AI the .22/250 (something I approve of) to make it shoot like a Swift does already. AI the .220 Swift and it leaves the .22/250 AI behind.

But barrel life is already short enough for these rounds. I rarely load either my .22/250 or my .220 Swift to their full potential. I like my barrels to last a long time as well as my brass. Back off the throttle a bit and have fun. A reduced load in my Swift will still push a 40 grain Vmax at over 4000 fps. And man! What that will do to a hapless prairie dog or Nevada ground squirrel is something to see. Instant death. Something to behold to be sure.
 
Originally Posted By: Rustydust


I have them both the .22/250 and the .220 Swift. They both shoot great and they both have killed their fair share of critters over the years. But when I open my safe my .220 is sitting right close to the front where I can grab it easily when I want to go scatter some small animals. The '250? Somewhere in the back I suppose. Not unloved but-you know- it aint a .220 Swift. It just wishes it was.

Be that as it may... It does not change the fact that:

Originally Posted By: DAA

...the '250 beat the holy crap out of the Swift. In the only areas either company cared about, which were rifle and ammo sales. The '250... is still vastly more popular than the Swift.


Is still a fact, Jack.
laugh.gif


For sure, if Remington started making them to beat the Swift, they succeeded. Like you said though, the Swift had already been abandoned. Hard to say they jumped on the Varminter band wagon to beat the Swift, when there really was no Swift to beat anymore.

No hate for the Swift here. Never owned one, but I think they are neat. I just think the .22-250AI is more neat, which is why I have worn out three of them and a fourth one is starting to show signs of needing to be replaced.

Now that I think about it, I wore out a pair of factory vanilla .22-250 barrels too. But when it was time to get another hot rod .22, I went the AI route over the Swift and would do so again, and again and again.

Swift's are cool though. I always wished I'd have snagged one of those Ruger 77's when you could still find one once in awhile for a reasonable price.

Buddy has been shooting a Number One .220AI for years and years, on the third or fourth barrel. That's a pretty sexy number.

- DAA
 
Originally Posted By: Rustydust
pyscodog said:
A reduced load in my Swift will still push a 40 grain Vmax at over 4000 fps. And man! What that will do to a hapless prairie dog or Nevada ground squirrel is something to see. Instant death. Something to behold to be sure.

You know... Not for nothing either... A .22BR will push the 40 Vmax 4K too. Brass life appears to be virtually unlimited. Not sure about barrel life yet, have not worn out one out yet (have two). But the one I use 40's at 4K in, already has more rounds on it than any .22-250 or .22-250AI barrel has ever lasted me and is still punching bug holes.

Can run a much longer string than the bigger volume cases too, before the barrel starts to smell hot or tell me it needs to be douched.

I think you really need a .22BR. Serious!

- DAA
Click to expand...
 
I've never understood the point of "improving" a 22-250 when you gain so very little from improving the 250 case. With the 22-243 just a straight neck down and load, if a person wants more case capacity that just seems like a more efficient way to go and you save the fireforming step.

Now, improving a 220 Swift is a whole different story and if Lapua ever makes brass for the Swift I just may have to build one of those, but until they do I guess I'll just stick with the basic boring old 22-250. I bought a real nice Kelbly Atlas 22-250 from a member here on PD that currently has a 24in tube and I'm seriously considering having it cut back to 18in and threaded. It'll loose a fair amount of velocity but shooting it suppressed will make it a lot more handy when the barrel is only 18 inches.
 
I have a fast twist 22-250 and All I've seen from shooting heavy bullets in it is the fact that when you get into the higher bullet weights, the cartridge quickly looses its ability to shot flat and you end up with a rainbow bullet trajectory which a larger case can handle better for hunting purposes. For target work at known distances, the effects of a rainbow bullet trajectory are mitigated.

I've played with a bunch of them and I finally settled on a 22-6MM for my hot rod rifle. And there is a reason why it has threads on the barrel. But if you're really worried about shooting out a barrel, you probably should stick with something like the excellent 222 Rem or a 223 Rem.

As DAA pointed out, Remington simply legitimized a very popular and fairly old wild cat cartridge when they brought out the 22-250 in factory form. And as he also pointed out, there was no significant 220 Swift market to compete with at the time.

I know. Opinions are like elbows and other body parts. We all have some.
 
Back to the original question....the Valkyrie makes little sense in a bolt gun, unless its a compact action such as the CZ or Howa. in a standard short action, rounds such as the .22-250, 22-250 AI, 22x47, 22XC and .22 Creedmoor offer exponentially more performance.

And yes, the old guys still like to brag about shoving a 40gr bullet at 4000fps....but with a hot, tight twisted .22, a 70+ gr bullet at 3500+ fps is a whole 'nother critter. I have a .243AI, and a .22 Creedmoor, and I will take the .22 with a 69gr TMK or a 75gr Berger over the .243 and 90gr out there every single time.
 
Originally Posted By: DAA
You know... Not for nothing either... A .22BR will push the 40 Vmax 4K too. Brass life appears to be virtually unlimited.

I think you really need a .22BR. Serious!

- DAA

Yeah, I know about the .22 BR and I like it. I remember when if you wanted one you had to buy .308 BR brass and make it yourself. Things certainly have gotten much better in that regard.

But as I said, a 40 grain bullet at 4000 fps is a mild load in the Swift. I have gotten over 4400 speeds in mine with that bullet but why? Nothing that I ever shoot with it is going to tell the difference. Load it down a few hundred fps and brass life goes way way up. I have some Norma brass that is over three decades old. Not too sure how many firings but a bunch of them to be sure.

I get asked all the time by people wanting a hot stepping .22 if they should get a Swift and I always say no. I tell them that for all intents and purposes the .22/250 will do 95% of what the Swift will do and brass and factory ammo is much easier to come by. Lots and lots more guns to choose from that's for sure.

Back in 1975 I bought a .220 Swift because I wanted to own the king of the varmint cartridges. If I were to buy one today it would be for the very same reason.
 
I think Russ needs to build himself a 20 BR and sling those 40's 4K. A 20 BR sounds more fun to me than does a 22BR. And, I'm not sure RD has anything .20 cal so that would suit him nicely.
 
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Great reading gentleman!

Back to the question of the Original Post. There would be No Downside to having it in a bolt gun. Pretty sure the development was or is intended to make it compatible for the AR 15 platform.

Thus this has been a joy for me to follow. I have recently purchased the Olympic UMAR in 22-250.
Never owned a Swift. Very happy with the choice I made from past bolt 22-250 performance.
 


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