.308 help needed

vahunter

vahunter

Active member
I have a problem with some .308 loads that have me baffled. In 30 years of loading I have never experienced this problem. I'm loading 150gr GK's OAL 2.80 in my savage.. The bolt is hard to close and if I try to unchamber a round I have to beat the bolt open and the bullet doesn't come out with the case. Fired brass comes out like it should. here's the kicker, these loads cycle fine in my Rem 660 and the loads I loaded a couple years ago for the 660 cycle fine in the savage. Same brass, same bullet same OAL. I tried some federal factory match ammo same OAL as my loads and it works fine in my savage. Anyone have a clue as to what could be happening. Iv'e adjusted the dies 3 times. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Check your brass more. If fired cases come out smooth it's gotta be something in your prep. Seat the bullets a bit decapper and see if the bullet doesn't get pulled. I use the 2.8 for my 168gr bullets too. Sounds like your not pushing the shoulder far enough back for the bolt to be closing hard. What kind of set up re you using? Are you neck sizing or FL sizing? Check to see that your brass hasn't stretched over OAL and need trimming too.
 
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Originally Posted By: nastynatesfishyour not pushing the shoulder far enough back for the bolt to be closing hard. Check to see that your brass hasn't stretched over OAL and need trimming too.

yep, check these...
and if your still having problems, check your web expansion, your brass could be hanging up here as well.
 
I'm using RCBS FL dies. Brass has been trimmed. What gets me is that these loads cycle perfectly in my 660 and to make things more complicated the loads I loaded a few years ago for my 660 cycle perfectly in the savage. Same components, same OAL.
 
my savage 22-250 is a tough to close and open w/ my handloads as well, never had a bullet seperate from the case...!!! I always assumed that i needed to get a neck sizer and stop fl length sizing, because a fired brass cycles just fine in mine as well...hope someone has the answer on this one as i will be watching as well....
 
T still sounds to me that your not bumping the shoulder enough. The savage probally has a tighter chamber, that's why they chamber in the other rifle. Try screwing the die down another 1/4 turn and see. If it doesn't work try using a buddies sizing die or a pice of their FL sized brass.
 
Shane, if your rounds are tight in and out with a fl die I wouldn't try a neck sizer. I stopped using my neck sizer in my win 70 22-250 because they were real tight. If you really want it let me know I'll sell or trade you mine neck sizer. I'm headed that way Tuesday for work so I'll be in Phoenix till Thursday night. Let me know and I'll bring it
 
Are you saying it pulls the bullet out of the case when trying to extract/eject a loaded round? It sounds like your projectile/bullet is in the lands. Try seating them a little deeper.If it ejects a fired round fine, it almost has to be seating depth. A hard lifting bolt is one sign of pressure and to deep in the lands and a hot load can produce these symptoms. Can't it??
 
I did have a Savage 308 that had a short throat and 2.800 would kiss the lands. I had to shorten my OAL to make it work.

Do you have a way to check your OAL in this rifle? If so, whats it measure for OAL with that bullet?
 
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If you can strip the bolt, try to chamber a resized case with the bolt stripped. This will tell you if the shoulder is too far forward. If so, you need to run the die slightly deeper in the press.

It's not uncommon to need to readjust dies for different chambers. I usually have a die set for each rifle even if they are chambered for the same cartridge. Also, could be one chamber has much shorter throat that the other; in that case, you should see marks on the bullet from hitting the rifling when chambering.

Jim
 
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Have you considered checking the shoulders on your brass? Now I'm going to ASSUME you have trimmed your casings to the proper length. I use RCBS Precision Mics for all my rifle casings and bump the shoulders accordingly. Compare the hard closing brass to a new or even used ones that close easily as a comparison for the reading off the Mic Gauge. The only other thing I'd be checking is the headspace on your rifle. BTW, does this condition exist with only certain types of brass or all brass you use for this load?
 
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You got something else going on there...there is absolutley zero chance a shoulder not "bumped" back to where it belongs will make a bullet stay in the bore when you extract a loaded round, period end of story. The shoulder does not grip or have anything to do with gripping or retaining the bullet in the case. The shoulder can make closing the bolt harder or not at all if its bad enough but that is all. Further, you say you are full length sizing these cases??? If this is true then neck sizing only wont help what you say is happening. Bullets staying in the bore when you unload a non fired round is generally being seated out too far in the case. The hard close you feel is when the bullet is engraving into the rifling. Maybe a short throat/long bullet issue too...what kind of rifle and what work has been done to it??? Is this rifle factory??? Has it had some custom "accurizing" or some other known or unknown exotic "gunsmithing" done to it??? Even a tight neck wont retain the bullet in the bore. Do you see rifling marks on the bullets that stick when you knock them free??? Forget the shoulder...that aint grabbing bullets.
 
Originally Posted By: msinc Bullets staying in the bore when you unload a non fired round is generally being seated out too far in the case. The hard close you feel is when the bullet is engraving into the rifling.

Yep.

I'm guessing you have to poke the stuck bullets out with a cleaning rod?
Check them for rifling (lands) marks engraved on the bullet.
 
I'm going to try another set of dies. Thanks for the help, I'll update after my new dies arrive and I try them out. Guy at RCBS said there is a possiblity dies could be the problem. We'll see.
 
Originally Posted By: nastynatesfishT still sounds to me that your not bumping the shoulder enough. The savage probally has a tighter chamber, that's why they chamber in the other rifle. Try screwing the die down another 1/4 turn and see. If it doesn't work try using a buddies sizing die or a pice of their FL sized brass. This is very good advice. My APA build has a match chamber and my regular M700 is a factory chamber. I use Redding FL Dies with bushing .002 under. This will fit in custom rifle and factory chamber. If I don't bump the shoulder back on the match chamber it will not go into chamber.It will be very hard to chamber or not at all. It will fit in the factory chamber though. Good Luck on your problem but nnf's advice is good to go.
 
Originally Posted By: pyscodogAre you saying it pulls the bullet out of the case when trying to extract/eject a loaded round? It sounds like your projectile/bullet is in the lands. Try seating them a little deeper.If it ejects a fired round fine, it almost has to be seating depth. A hard lifting bolt is one sign of pressure and to deep in the lands and a hot load can produce these symptoms. Can't it??




I would agree with this. This was my first thought. I run my bullets into the rifling on my 308 and when trying to extract, the case comes out, the bullet is stuck, and powder dumps into my magazine well.
 
well so far its vahunter and i w/ this prob...mine doesnt pull the bullet, since im not hitting the lands....just hard to chamber and un chamber.... i have been following this thread, so i went and got a fired case(from said savage rifle) a handloaded case(fl sized, oal set to what the rifle likes),and my caliper, and sammi specs on 22-250.... fired case is almost exact but not over on every sammi dim..... handloaded case is under all these dim... bullet is far from grooves...i've never had any high pressure signs...just always thought it was just this rifles temperment...so the rounds take more force than normal to close/open until fired...then the bolt opens as usaul...havent fired/measured factory rds in yrs ...so its still a mystery to me....
 
Originally Posted By: shanedoggwell so far its vahunter and i w/ this prob...mine doesnt pull the bullet, since im not hitting the lands....just hard to chamber and un chamber.... i have been following this thread, so i went and got a fired case(from said savage rifle) a handloaded case(fl sized, oal set to what the rifle likes),and my caliper, and sammi specs on 22-250.... fired case is almost exact but not over on every sammi dim..... handloaded case is under all these dim... bullet is far from grooves...i've never had any high pressure signs...just always thought it was just this rifles temperment...so the rounds take more force than normal to close/open until fired...then the bolt opens as usaul...havent fired/measured factory rds in yrs ...so its still a mystery to me....

Try a go gauge to check for headspacing. If the bolt closes with the go gauge, the headspacing is correct. If it doesn't close the headspace is too short.
 
May be diameter at case head after sizing. Put an empty fired brass in chamber and feel how it goes. Then resize same brass and retry to feel the difference. If it is tighter look for marks near bottom of case from chamber. May need small base die to full length resize.
 
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