45-90 load thoughts

arlaunch

arlaunch

Active member
Other than a squib of course.

I have a 1885 Browning/Miroku single shot rifle chambered in 45-90.

From what i have read in Hodgon's online warnings section, and various Speer load manuals, is that modern 1885's are considered strong actions, and grouped into the same category as Ruger #1's

There is no smokeless load data in any of my manuals for jacketed bullets. Lymans cast bullet manual has smokeless data for cast bullets, as does my 50th editions Lyman manual.

I am not sure how to play this game with a nice strong action. I wonder if it safer to load a higher end charge, then suffer the effects of too little powder in a large capacity case?

This is a little nerve racking. I have had one case loaded up with Reloader 7 for almost a year. I just can't muster the courage to let one go by the lab radar.
 
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I’ve been casting and shooting cast Boolits for almost 6 years. I’ve tried jacketed Boolits with Cast bullet data, many times. The big issue is is you aren’t going to get them to stabilize it slower speeds. You have to remember with the Cast bullet they’re oversized, so when they go down your bore the bullets are basically re sizing and engaging the rifling. Jacketed bullets are the same diameter as your bore. They need the extra pressure from higher velocity loads to expand and seal the bore for any type of usable accuracy. I tried downloading my 375 Rum a few years back with cast data along with trail boss Using 235 grain jacketed ammo. Three feet plus groups at 100 yards with all loads tried with jacketed ammo. I didn’t start getting usable accuracy till I jumped up to normal starting books loads with more than healthy recoil. So it can be done. The problem is you’re not gonna get half way decent accuracy out of them past 25 yards. Also, as stated above low pressure loads will blow up a case, instead of sending the bullet down and its path. So do you research on what powders you can download. Like trail boss, unique, and I believe H4895. Most of the rest of the powders out there are not designed for “under loading” and your going to blow up your gun and yourself.… it would be like a bomb going off. I use FG in my 1873 Charles Daly domascus SxS 10 gauge with cut down plastic hulls to 2 7/8” to 2 5/8”. It’s a nightmare mess to clean out of the old pitted bores. If you want to have some fun and just shoot it to try it, I’d stick the trail boss. The rule of thumb is to mark where the bullet seats in the case and that’s who Max loading. You don’t want to compress the powder. You can download it to 80% of max but I just stick right at max because there’s no recoil in very little velocity at max. Otherwise, if you’re looking for usable accuracy use Cast bullets. I tried chasing accuracy with low velocity loads in my 77/44 with jacketed bullets a few years back. Accur past 25 yards was not acceptable. Same load data with cast I had great accuracy. Imo it’s because the oversized cast bullets are engaging the rifling and stabilizing vs the smaller in diameter jacketed bullets aren’t getting enough pressure to expand“ enough to engage the rifling so it’s like throwing a hotdog down a hall way. I’m a member at castboolits forum. It’s where I learned how to “everything“ with cast bullets. Trail boss works well for me in my 44 mag rifles and pistols and also my Colt 45 Ruger vaquero with excellent accuracy. I just use the loads with cast bullets only thst I size to 1000ths to 3000ths over slugged barrel diameter.


So long story short, the Cast loads should work with your jacket bullets but accuracy will be horrible past 25 to 50 yards.
 
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Thank you for the input.

I have no desire to shoot low velocity loads. I am actually looking for max pressure loads. I just need to start somewhere. At some starting load. And i am worried it won't be enough.

Will keep looking around.
 
the big danger on under loading - or more specifically low case fill - is that of a flashover.

what happens is instead of burning the powder from the back of the case in a relatively controlled fashion, if your case fill is too low the primer can flash across the top of the powder and ignite a significant percent of it at once, creating a very dangerous pressure spike as too much powder burns at the same time, and a bang turns into a *kaboom*.

as mentioned H4895 is a great powder for reduced loadings. there is a LOT of data out there for stuff. not suggesting that its a viable option for this peticular caliber, just that its one thats known for safe down-loading for low recoil loads for as an example youth hunters.
 
To sum this up, for a future reader:

The Hornady 325gr FTX goes much farther down in the case than the 300 grain HP does. This also gives the projectile a huge jump to the rifling. (in my rifle)

The nice thing about it though, is that the bullet takes up a whopping lot! of case capacity. Which is a good thing with this one.

1885 Winchester/Miroku Sporter with a 28 inch barrel.

Starline brass, CCI #200, 51.5 grains of Reloader 7, bullet seated to just above the cannelure and 37° = 2088 fps.

I am real happy with the case capacity. I plan to up the charge weight for better case fill, and what i believe is a higher safety margin.

It is clear that case fill properties are somewhat more forgiving with faster powders and bigger bore's, than say magnum cartridge loadings.
 
I know you’ve already got answers figured out. But I’ve just been thinking outside the box on this lately. Since the 325 grain FTX is a really long shank bullet I was thinking measure how much case capacity vs a 45-70 case capacity. also I’m guessing this is a single shot? You probably can shoot 4570 in it then right? Just like with the 460 Smith & Wesson you can shoot 454 and 45 Colt In.
 
Last night i went out in the back yard and fired 57.0 grains by the lab radar. Got an error!!!

Case ejected perfect. The primer looks text book and round. And there was no leaky case seals. Clean brass.

The case fill is very, very good. At 57 grains plus, i could not be happier with the lack of airspace that exists.

This 1885 is really starting to grow on me.
 
Well, there is something intriguing about shooting something the size of your middle finger. Been shooting 45-70 for years.

First 500 grainers in a '74 sharps replica. Old time Buffalo target competition stuff. Herd of targets at unknown distance.

Now Deer loads in a 1895 Marlin. 300 grain jacketed and 400 grain cast.
 
I also am an avid 45-70 guy. I have a very pretty 1895 Marlin Limited from the early 2000's.

Also an 1894 Marlin chambered in 45 Colt.

I really love 45 Cal straight wall cartridges.
 
Not an old rifle or a 45/90. But I have a Knight kp1 in 45/70. It's new in the box, I was given 4 boxes of 300 gr Barnes bullet ammo. I found a new/old stock scope mount for it. The next elk license I draw this is going with as a backup rifle, hoping conditions would be right to take an elk with it.
 
No cool old .458’s for me. I have a new vaquero 45 cold and gunsite scout 450bm in .452’s. Had a Guide Gun the first year of production around 95/96’? Took it bear hunting in canada. Quite a few months prior for the trip. Marlin did a great marketing job with black bear on it so I bought one taking my old trusty 30-06. I took the odd six I would’ve had a bear that year. I was using 1600 ft./s 405 Winchester factory loads in my guide, put me a little over 150 yards away from the bait pile. Two different beer on camera you could see the bullets hit them in the boiler room and they both ran away like nothing happened with zero blood to follow. guides never found them needless to say. I asked to be put over an archery stand that was within spinning distance, and apparently they had all the archery stands taken. should’ve kept the gun, but I sold it as soon as I got home because I was mad. if they would’ve put me over an archery stand where I had a 30 to 40 yard shot I’m sure I’d start on that gun today. I remember I tried to every factory load i could find on the shelves that was offered at the time and the best that thing would do was three shot groups at 3 inches at 100 yards. of course I picked the best shooting group which was the slow 1600 ft./s 405 grain load. I’m sure it was like throwing rocks at that distance on the bear when I could even see my bullet on video going through the air looking like it was in slow motion and into the bear. I’m sure a 75 yard shot or closer would’ve knocked its on its butt. The slow factory load ran out of steam at 150 yards plus. I should have told them I wanted a close to the bait pile stand or money back at the time. I was a young kid and didn’t know any better and got taken advantage of and the time. I went back Canada again a year later to a guide in the same area. I used a bow and shot a bear that made book. It was a 18 yard shot.
 
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