7.62 x 39 versus .300-.221 (whisper)

M

MTmud

New member
I'm going to have a new upper built for my AR15, and I can't decide between the (russian) 7.62 x 39 (with a .308 bore), or the very popular .300 whisper, based on the .221 fireball.
Anyone have some ballistics on the Whisper in a 20 - 24" barrel? All of my info is on pistol barrels.
Anyone prefer one over the other?
 
The 300 whisper was designed for one purpose, and one purpose only. It is subsonic so it can be used with a silencer, and have no supersonic crack. It also has some strange stability quirks. Unless you are going to pay the tax for a silencer, you do not want a 300 whisper.

Jack
 
Thanks Jack.
I noticed the obviously small case capacity of the whisper, and I've heard/read about its intended use as a subsonic round. But I've also been told it has another end of its performance spectrum. Loaded with 110 gr bullets it supposedly reaches decent velocity??? Anyone try this?
I'm leaning toward the 7.62 x 39 because of its larger case capacity. The problem I am finding is that most barrel makers are building these AR 15 barrels with the .310 - .311" bores for use with military ammo. I intend to use reloads only with the better selection of .308 bullets that every manufacturer makes.
 
I remember seeing an AR in remington 308. I'll look around and get back to you. Is there too much slop when shooting .310 in .308. I have only reloaded 7.62x39 saboted rounds. They are a little less accurite but really fast. I use a full load of powder with a 55 grain saboted bullet (in lue of the 139grain). It does a number on ground squrrels. My sks does not shoot as good as I would like. I have been lokking for a bolt action in 7.62x39. Ruger made on for a little over a year, but they are a little hard for me to find. I'll see what I can find on that AR barrel.

Snipe

How about building your AR in 308. You can reduce the loads if you are looking for less recoil. Hodgdon has a powder which can be loaded @ 50% case capacity. What are you looking for from the 7.62X39 round?

Here is a link to AR barrels in 308

http://www.armalite.com/sales/catalog/components/308barrels.htm
 
187, CZ makes a bolt gun in the 7.62x39, they prefer .310 bullets though. The AR's in 308 length actions are AR-10's built by armalite and american spirit arms. You can have a 300 WSM upper built for them.
Mud, what do you want your new upper for? lots of options out there.
RR
 
Thanks RR, I was looking at them too. As far as I can tell, they made a small run of them like Ruger did. I have lots of round for my sks and I thought that I could have a lot of fun with them in a bolt action. I could pay for it self with the amount that I would save in round. But I have been reloading more and more for my 7mm and buddies 30.06. I have been leaning toward a 223 or 308 these days. The ammo is about as cheap and there are alot more options in rifles. Thanks for the reply.

Snipe
 
I'm looking for a short-range deer gun (100-175 yds or so). The .308 win is the better choice, but the AR10 action and parts are way too expensive. I want a couple of different uppers for my Oly AR15, to make a sweet quick-change rifle. I've owned AK and SKS variants, and was always disapointed with the accuracy. I've heard that using .308 diam bullets in the .310-.311 barrels (almost every 7.62 x 39 uses the larger diam, except for Ruger mini30) is very dissapointing in accuracy.
 
how bout a 50 AE or a 458 SOCOM, the 458 is the absolute most power available in the AR, basicly a 450 marlin in an AR package, I got one and out to 150-175 yds. it will devastate a whitetail.
RR
BTW they can be had in 440 core-bon also
 
You could pick up a new sks or ak for about the same price as the upper. Could be an option. I have not had a problem on bigger targets(3 pigs,1 Deer)with my sks. All dropped with 139hp. But I never took a shot past 200yds on any of them. I do shoot at ground squrrels past that. But one doesn't need as much energy for "range rats". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gifWell hope you find it.
Snipe
 
how bout a 50 AE or a 458 SOCOM, the 458 is the absolute most power available in the AR, basicly a 450 marlin in an AR package, I got one and out to 150-175 yds. it will devastate a whitetail.
RR
BTW they can be had in 440 core-bon also. These are complete uppers for an AR, sorry I didn't mention that
 
I have a Colt Match Target Lightweight upper in 7.62x39. This has a medium weight 16" inch barrel and iron sights. I've added an Ashley white outline small tritium dot on the front, and it's quick and accurate at the close ranges I figure I may need this rifle. I use it for a duty weapon for certain situations and like the high magazine capacity (40 rounds) over a shotgun, and the thump of the 7.62 bullets at short to medium ranges over the .223. I also have a Wilson Combat 18" FlatTop upper for the rifle and it's scoped and works very well for more precise applications. Including coyote hunting!
 
GC: Do you know what the bore diameter is of your Colt barrel?
Ridge Runner: I've read about the .458 SoCom, sounds like an awesome round. Had a desert eagle in .50 AE too. Another I've been Eyeing is the .50 Beowulf, a lot cheaper than the .458 SoCom. The best part of these two is they use the stock .223 mags. The downfall is the brass is really expensive, and usually backordered! I think the .50 AE requires special (spendy!) mags.
Another caliber I've been eyeing is the .357 rimless mag (ar15barrels.com). Can be loaded hotter than the .357 mag in lever guns, components are common too, it uses modified .223 brass!
 
I found some info on: http://www.quarterbore.com/300whisper/supersonic.html

From the site:
In super-sonic mode, the 300 Whisper® essentially ballistically duplicates the 7.62. x 39 Russian round with far better and more accurate bullets than usually found in the Russians .310-.311 bullet diameter. It makes an excellent 200-250 yard deer cartridge in very lightweight rifles with very little recoil making it an excellent choice for any individual who may be sensitive to recoil. As a recreational cartridge it is accurate, has a low noise level in any mode, and with the heavier bullets is capable of 100% performance on Silhouette Ram targets.
 
Time for a reality check here.

In a pistol the 300 Whisper is subsonic with 180 gr bullets. That is less than 1100 fps, depending on altitude and temperature. In a rifle it can be super sonic because of the longer barrel. So it may get a 180 gr bullet up to 1500 or possibly 1600 fps. That is being generous with that small case size. OK! The 7.62X39 pushes a 180 bullet at 26-2700fps. Equal performance? I don't think so! Since energy is determined by the square of the velocity, the 7.62 has between 3 and 4 times the energy of the 300 Whisper.

Jack
 
Jack,
Thanks for the reallity check! They always say don't believe everything you read! That web site makes some outrageous claims of the fps potential, but now that I've seen the two cases side by side I don't see how they could possibly compare.
I found a company making a Ar15 barrels in what they refer to as "7.62 x .308", which is essentially a 7.62 x 39 with the more bullet friendly .308" bore. www.accuracysystemsinc.com

Thanks for everyone's help & input.
 


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