Anybody else using AI to compile and sort data for your load development? I use Grok to cross reference load manual data from powder and bullet manufacturers, forum posts, other AI users, etc. I’ve found it very helpful when working up loads for the more common rifles and calibers, like R700 in 6.5 CM, for instance. Overall, it saves me a lot of time, components and trips to the range. And I’m pretty sure as more and more reloaders start to use it and share range data with it, it will only get better.
AI for Load Development
- Thread starter Animalaxe
- Start date
Sgt_Mike
Well-known member
Same here..
spotstalkshoot
Well-known member
They're all based out of San Francisco. That tells me enough about trust.
Big Lou
Well-known member
Amen.
cropdamage
Well-known member
Nope
AWS
Custom Accessory Maker & Retired PM Staff
Maybe when it's been around as long as a ballpoint pen I might use it. It took me a lonnnng time to give up my fountain pen, I still like to write with fountain pen, it just feels right. AI scares the crap out of me, I used to see something and know it was real now with AI everything is suspect.
My wife talked me into getting rid of my typewriter, she finally convinced me that electricity is here to stay. I still sew on a treadle sewing machine, keep my kerosene lamps handy and miss my typewriter. I don't trust e-scales for weighing powder either.
My wife talked me into getting rid of my typewriter, she finally convinced me that electricity is here to stay. I still sew on a treadle sewing machine, keep my kerosene lamps handy and miss my typewriter. I don't trust e-scales for weighing powder either.
Sgt_Mike
Well-known member
While I slam AI in anything, I do know that it will get better at some point, it might even provide really good trustworthy results for reloading.
How far into the future IDK.
The OP seems to have found a usage for it or is intrigued by it, nothing wrong with that. Bottom line is I just don't trust it.
That doesn't mean it can't be useful. It's new, and has yet to be proven, much like any new invention we have offered to us.
For example the automatic transmission taking over it wasn't until recently that the auto manufacturer finally killed off the manual transmission in trucks. I much prefer the manual transmission for what a truck was meant to do, not what many use them for today.
I don't doubt the technology of AI, I just don't trust the data sets it uses when it polls reddit in lieu of powder and bullet makers.
Like AWS mentions the e-scales, yes I do have a set, and do use them. Yet, I still have a balance beam Ohaus to check them against.
That said I will use Quick load data without hesitation, although I'm still cautious.
How far into the future IDK.
The OP seems to have found a usage for it or is intrigued by it, nothing wrong with that. Bottom line is I just don't trust it.
That doesn't mean it can't be useful. It's new, and has yet to be proven, much like any new invention we have offered to us.
For example the automatic transmission taking over it wasn't until recently that the auto manufacturer finally killed off the manual transmission in trucks. I much prefer the manual transmission for what a truck was meant to do, not what many use them for today.
I don't doubt the technology of AI, I just don't trust the data sets it uses when it polls reddit in lieu of powder and bullet makers.
Like AWS mentions the e-scales, yes I do have a set, and do use them. Yet, I still have a balance beam Ohaus to check them against.
That said I will use Quick load data without hesitation, although I'm still cautious.
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The OP seems to have found a usage for it or is intrigued by it, nothing wrong with that. Bottom line is I just don't trust it.
Amen to all above.
IndexFinger
Custom Accessory Maker
AWS
Custom Accessory Maker & Retired PM Staff
Automatic transmissions, sorry if we're going OT. I've driven automatic transmissions since the 1960s, I've also have driven standard/stick for just as long. In fact I've gotten three jobs just because I knew how. Twice driving school buses because the company had one old school bus with stick and nobody to drive it. The third because I knew how to drive a 4 and 4 transmission and spent a few months rowing a Kenworth semi with a 290 Cummings 4 and 4 transmission towing 105,500 pounds of cement through the Cascades you dont know how much I would have appreciated a 16speed Allison automatic.
I love auto trans pulling a boat out of a steep ramp, traveling back country roads with washouts, crossing deep washes and navigating cities with steep streets like Seattle. Stick for hauling stuff long distances, positive and reliable, but a lot of work if your constantly changing gears. I've put some time in semis with 5 speeds(macks) 10 speeds(Freightliner and Kenworth), 5x3(Rio), 4x4(Kenworth) and a 5x4 for a couple runs in a Brockway.
I love auto trans pulling a boat out of a steep ramp, traveling back country roads with washouts, crossing deep washes and navigating cities with steep streets like Seattle. Stick for hauling stuff long distances, positive and reliable, but a lot of work if your constantly changing gears. I've put some time in semis with 5 speeds(macks) 10 speeds(Freightliner and Kenworth), 5x3(Rio), 4x4(Kenworth) and a 5x4 for a couple runs in a Brockway.
Sgt_Mike
Well-known member
Until someone whom has used it and likes it comes along. Why not tell how the AI assisted you with the 6.5CM loads.Lots of strong opinions out there.Can anyone else weigh in who’s actually tried it?
While I may not like it, for reloading doesn't mean I won't listen to someone whom does. You might expose something I've simply overlooked such as can one exclude certain forums from the equation it processes?
I asked Grok this question:
I have a ruger American Gen I in 6.5 creedmoor with an 18” 8 twist barrel and a Banish 30 can. I have the following components: RL-16, H4350, IMR-4350, N555 and varget powders, Starline srp brass, CCI 450 primers, Hornady 143 ELD-X, Hornady 140 ELDM, Berger 140 EH and Berger 156 EH bullets. What combination of components will give me the tightest groups at 100 yards with this rifle?
In 34 seconds, I got this answer:
The combination most likely to deliver the tightest 100-yard groups in your specific Ruger American Gen I (18” 1:8 twist barrel + Banish 30 suppressor) is the Hornady 143gr ELD-X bullet with Hodgdon H4350 powder.
This pairing stands out across dozens of user reports and tests on Ruger American 6.5 Creedmoor rifles (including Gen I models with similar 18–22” barrels). Factory Hornady Precision Hunter ammo using the 143 ELD-X often shoots sub-MOA right out of these rifles, and handloads consistently produce 0.5–0.75” (or better) 5-shot groups at 100 yards once a node is found. The 1:8 twist stabilizes the 143gr bullet perfectly, and the ELD-X’s design (high BC, consistent manufacturing) pairs exceptionally well with H4350’s burn rate for low SD/ES and excellent harmonics in shorter barrels.
Why this over your other options?
• H4350 is the “gold standard” powder for 6.5 Creedmoor accuracy — far more reports of sub-MOA nodes than the others in Ruger Americans. It gives consistent velocities (~2,600–2,700 fps expected from your 18” barrel) and forgiving pressure curves. RL-16 is extremely close (sometimes even better in a few rifles for velocity/temp stability) and worth testing as a very strong #2. IMR-4350 is similar to H4350 but has fewer glowing accuracy reports. N555 is excellent (temp-stable, sub-½ MOA possible) but less commonly the top performer in short-barreled Rugers. Varget works but is generally outclassed by slower-burning 4350-class powders for 140+ gr bullets — lower velocity and fewer “best group” mentions.
• 143gr ELD-X edges out the 140gr ELD-M (also excellent, especially for pure match work) and Berger 140 EH in Ruger-specific tests — more consistent factory-like groups reported. The Berger 140 EH shoots well with H4350/RL-16 but has more “average” or “so-so” feedback in some rifles. The 156gr Berger EH is a solid long-range hunter but typically produces slightly larger 100-yard groups in 18” barrels (slower velocities ~2,500–2,600 fps, heavier recoil node) and has far less accuracy data overall.
Your Starline SRP brass + CCI 450 primers are a proven combo (many precision shooters use exactly this setup with small-primer pockets and magnum primers for reliable ignition). The Banish 30 will add a tiny bit of backpressure (slight velocity/pressure increase), so monitor for pressure signs closely.
Safe starting point & development advice (critical)
Do NOT start at max charges. Your 18” barrel + suppressor means pressures can spike faster than published 24” test data. Always use a chronograph, watch for flattened primers, sticky bolt lift, or case-head expansion. Start low and work up in 0.3–0.5 gr increments, looking for velocity nodes with the lowest SD/ES and smallest groups.
Typical published safe range for 143gr ELD-X + H4350 (Hornady/Hodgdon data, 2.800” COAL):
• Start: ~39.0–40.0 gr
• Common accuracy node: 41.0–41.7 gr (many Ruger users land here for sub-MOA)
• Max listed: ~41.5–42.0 gr (do not exceed without pressure signs clear)
COAL recommendation: 2.800” is the standard starting point (or measure your chamber for ~0.010–0.020” jump to lands for best results). Seat to the cannelure or just above if using a crimp.
Load development plan for tightest groups:
1. Load 5–10 rounds each at 0.3 gr increments from 39.0 gr up.
2. Shoot 3–5 shot groups at 100 yards from a solid rest (bipod/rear bag).
3. Chrono every string — look for flat velocity nodes (SD <10–15 fps).
4. The charge that gives the smallest group + consistent velocity is your winner.
5. Then fine-tune seating depth in 0.003–0.005” steps if needed.
Very close runner-up to test next: Hornady 140gr ELD-M with RL-16 (same COAL, start ~40.0–41.0 gr, common node ~42.0–43.0 gr per Alliant data). Or swap to Berger 140 EH with H4350 if you prefer the hybrid ogive.
This setup should easily give you sub-MOA (often ½ MOA or better) once dialed in — many identical Ruger Americans do exactly that. Buy a good reloading manual (Hornady 10th/11th or Hodgdon) or use the Hodgdon/Alliant online data centers for your exact bullet confirmation, and always prioritize safety over speed. If you develop a standout load, these rifles often hold it for hundreds of rounds with excellent consistency. Good luck — your component list is excellent for this rifle!
I have a ruger American Gen I in 6.5 creedmoor with an 18” 8 twist barrel and a Banish 30 can. I have the following components: RL-16, H4350, IMR-4350, N555 and varget powders, Starline srp brass, CCI 450 primers, Hornady 143 ELD-X, Hornady 140 ELDM, Berger 140 EH and Berger 156 EH bullets. What combination of components will give me the tightest groups at 100 yards with this rifle?
In 34 seconds, I got this answer:
The combination most likely to deliver the tightest 100-yard groups in your specific Ruger American Gen I (18” 1:8 twist barrel + Banish 30 suppressor) is the Hornady 143gr ELD-X bullet with Hodgdon H4350 powder.
This pairing stands out across dozens of user reports and tests on Ruger American 6.5 Creedmoor rifles (including Gen I models with similar 18–22” barrels). Factory Hornady Precision Hunter ammo using the 143 ELD-X often shoots sub-MOA right out of these rifles, and handloads consistently produce 0.5–0.75” (or better) 5-shot groups at 100 yards once a node is found. The 1:8 twist stabilizes the 143gr bullet perfectly, and the ELD-X’s design (high BC, consistent manufacturing) pairs exceptionally well with H4350’s burn rate for low SD/ES and excellent harmonics in shorter barrels.
Why this over your other options?
• H4350 is the “gold standard” powder for 6.5 Creedmoor accuracy — far more reports of sub-MOA nodes than the others in Ruger Americans. It gives consistent velocities (~2,600–2,700 fps expected from your 18” barrel) and forgiving pressure curves. RL-16 is extremely close (sometimes even better in a few rifles for velocity/temp stability) and worth testing as a very strong #2. IMR-4350 is similar to H4350 but has fewer glowing accuracy reports. N555 is excellent (temp-stable, sub-½ MOA possible) but less commonly the top performer in short-barreled Rugers. Varget works but is generally outclassed by slower-burning 4350-class powders for 140+ gr bullets — lower velocity and fewer “best group” mentions.
• 143gr ELD-X edges out the 140gr ELD-M (also excellent, especially for pure match work) and Berger 140 EH in Ruger-specific tests — more consistent factory-like groups reported. The Berger 140 EH shoots well with H4350/RL-16 but has more “average” or “so-so” feedback in some rifles. The 156gr Berger EH is a solid long-range hunter but typically produces slightly larger 100-yard groups in 18” barrels (slower velocities ~2,500–2,600 fps, heavier recoil node) and has far less accuracy data overall.
Your Starline SRP brass + CCI 450 primers are a proven combo (many precision shooters use exactly this setup with small-primer pockets and magnum primers for reliable ignition). The Banish 30 will add a tiny bit of backpressure (slight velocity/pressure increase), so monitor for pressure signs closely.
Safe starting point & development advice (critical)
Do NOT start at max charges. Your 18” barrel + suppressor means pressures can spike faster than published 24” test data. Always use a chronograph, watch for flattened primers, sticky bolt lift, or case-head expansion. Start low and work up in 0.3–0.5 gr increments, looking for velocity nodes with the lowest SD/ES and smallest groups.
Typical published safe range for 143gr ELD-X + H4350 (Hornady/Hodgdon data, 2.800” COAL):
• Start: ~39.0–40.0 gr
• Common accuracy node: 41.0–41.7 gr (many Ruger users land here for sub-MOA)
• Max listed: ~41.5–42.0 gr (do not exceed without pressure signs clear)
COAL recommendation: 2.800” is the standard starting point (or measure your chamber for ~0.010–0.020” jump to lands for best results). Seat to the cannelure or just above if using a crimp.
Load development plan for tightest groups:
1. Load 5–10 rounds each at 0.3 gr increments from 39.0 gr up.
2. Shoot 3–5 shot groups at 100 yards from a solid rest (bipod/rear bag).
3. Chrono every string — look for flat velocity nodes (SD <10–15 fps).
4. The charge that gives the smallest group + consistent velocity is your winner.
5. Then fine-tune seating depth in 0.003–0.005” steps if needed.
Very close runner-up to test next: Hornady 140gr ELD-M with RL-16 (same COAL, start ~40.0–41.0 gr, common node ~42.0–43.0 gr per Alliant data). Or swap to Berger 140 EH with H4350 if you prefer the hybrid ogive.
This setup should easily give you sub-MOA (often ½ MOA or better) once dialed in — many identical Ruger Americans do exactly that. Buy a good reloading manual (Hornady 10th/11th or Hodgdon) or use the Hodgdon/Alliant online data centers for your exact bullet confirmation, and always prioritize safety over speed. If you develop a standout load, these rifles often hold it for hundreds of rounds with excellent consistency. Good luck — your component list is excellent for this rifle!
I followed up with this question:
So I’ve decided to go with RL-16 and the 143 ELDX. Where will I most likely find the best accuracy node on my charge ladder and what is the likely most accurate jump for this bullet?
14 seconds later, I got this answer:
The most likely spot for your tightest 100-yard groups (and lowest SD/ES) with RL-16 + 143gr Hornady ELD-X in your 18” Ruger American Gen I + Banish 30 is right around 41.8–42.2 grains.
This is the charge range that repeatedly shows up as the accuracy node across dozens of real-world 6.5 Creedmoor reports (including suppressed short barrels very close to your setup). Expect velocities in the ~2,650–2,720 fps range from your 18” tube once suppressed (the can adds ~20–50 fps via backpressure). Many identical or near-identical combos (Starline/Peterson SRP brass + CCI 450 primers) have produced sub-½ MOA groups here with single-digit SDs.
Why this node?
• RL-16 is extremely forgiving and temp-stable in 6.5 Creedmoor. The “flat spot” on a charge ladder almost always lands in this 0.4-grain window for the 143 ELD-X.
• Shorter 18–20” barrels + suppressor shift the node slightly lower than the 24” test-barrel data you’ll see online (which often peaks closer to 42.5–43 gr).
• Your exact components (Starline SRP + CCI 450) match several of the best-reported loads above—no guesswork on ignition or brass stretch.
Safe ladder plan (do this first):
Load 5 rounds each in 0.3-grain increments:
39.5 gr → 40.0 → 40.3 → 40.6 → 40.9 → 41.2 → 41.5 → 41.8 → 42.1 → 42.4 gr (stop at first pressure signs).
Shoot 3–5 shot groups from a solid rest at 100 yards + chronograph everything. The charge with the smallest group + flattest velocity line (SD <10–12 fps) is your winner—almost always 41.8–42.2 gr in these rifles.
Do NOT exceed 42.5 gr without clear pressure signs (flattened primers, sticky extraction, ejector marks). Your short barrel + suppressor builds pressure faster than book data.
Most likely most accurate jump (seating depth)
0.020” off the lands (which usually lands at a COAL of ~2.800” in factory Ruger American chambers).
This is the sweet spot reported by the majority of 143 ELD-X shooters for sub-MOA (and often sub-0.5 MOA) groups. Some rifles like 0.025–0.030” or even 0.050” jump, but 0.020” is the single most common “magic” depth for this bullet in 6.5 Creedmoor.
How to start:
• Seat to 2.800” COAL (standard Hornady recommendation and mag-safe in the Ruger American).
• Once you find your charge node, do a quick seating-depth test: load 5 rounds each at 2.795”, 2.800”, 2.805”, and 2.810” and compare groups. Fine-tune in 0.003–0.005” steps if needed.
Quick recap of your winning combo
• Bullet: Hornady 143 ELD-X
• Powder: 41.8–42.2 gr RL-16 (most likely node)
• Primer: CCI 450 (perfect with Starline SRP)
• Brass: Starline SRP (trim to 1.750” or less)
• COAL: Start 2.800” (~0.020” jump)
• Crimp: Light roll crimp on the cannelure (helps consistency suppressed)
This exact recipe (or within 0.2 gr) has produced bughole groups in multiple suppressed 20–23.5” barrels with the same primers/brass. Your 18” + Banish 30 should do the same once you dial in the node.
Run the ladder exactly as above, watch pressure like a hawk, and you’ll almost certainly have a sub-MOA hunting load that’s also a tack-driver at 100 yards. If you want, post your chrono data after the ladder and I can help you fine-tune the final charge or seating depth. Your component list is excellent—go make some tiny holes!
So I’ve decided to go with RL-16 and the 143 ELDX. Where will I most likely find the best accuracy node on my charge ladder and what is the likely most accurate jump for this bullet?
14 seconds later, I got this answer:
The most likely spot for your tightest 100-yard groups (and lowest SD/ES) with RL-16 + 143gr Hornady ELD-X in your 18” Ruger American Gen I + Banish 30 is right around 41.8–42.2 grains.
This is the charge range that repeatedly shows up as the accuracy node across dozens of real-world 6.5 Creedmoor reports (including suppressed short barrels very close to your setup). Expect velocities in the ~2,650–2,720 fps range from your 18” tube once suppressed (the can adds ~20–50 fps via backpressure). Many identical or near-identical combos (Starline/Peterson SRP brass + CCI 450 primers) have produced sub-½ MOA groups here with single-digit SDs.
Why this node?
• RL-16 is extremely forgiving and temp-stable in 6.5 Creedmoor. The “flat spot” on a charge ladder almost always lands in this 0.4-grain window for the 143 ELD-X.
• Shorter 18–20” barrels + suppressor shift the node slightly lower than the 24” test-barrel data you’ll see online (which often peaks closer to 42.5–43 gr).
• Your exact components (Starline SRP + CCI 450) match several of the best-reported loads above—no guesswork on ignition or brass stretch.
Safe ladder plan (do this first):
Load 5 rounds each in 0.3-grain increments:
39.5 gr → 40.0 → 40.3 → 40.6 → 40.9 → 41.2 → 41.5 → 41.8 → 42.1 → 42.4 gr (stop at first pressure signs).
Shoot 3–5 shot groups from a solid rest at 100 yards + chronograph everything. The charge with the smallest group + flattest velocity line (SD <10–12 fps) is your winner—almost always 41.8–42.2 gr in these rifles.
Do NOT exceed 42.5 gr without clear pressure signs (flattened primers, sticky extraction, ejector marks). Your short barrel + suppressor builds pressure faster than book data.
Most likely most accurate jump (seating depth)
0.020” off the lands (which usually lands at a COAL of ~2.800” in factory Ruger American chambers).
This is the sweet spot reported by the majority of 143 ELD-X shooters for sub-MOA (and often sub-0.5 MOA) groups. Some rifles like 0.025–0.030” or even 0.050” jump, but 0.020” is the single most common “magic” depth for this bullet in 6.5 Creedmoor.
How to start:
• Seat to 2.800” COAL (standard Hornady recommendation and mag-safe in the Ruger American).
• Once you find your charge node, do a quick seating-depth test: load 5 rounds each at 2.795”, 2.800”, 2.805”, and 2.810” and compare groups. Fine-tune in 0.003–0.005” steps if needed.
Quick recap of your winning combo
• Bullet: Hornady 143 ELD-X
• Powder: 41.8–42.2 gr RL-16 (most likely node)
• Primer: CCI 450 (perfect with Starline SRP)
• Brass: Starline SRP (trim to 1.750” or less)
• COAL: Start 2.800” (~0.020” jump)
• Crimp: Light roll crimp on the cannelure (helps consistency suppressed)
This exact recipe (or within 0.2 gr) has produced bughole groups in multiple suppressed 20–23.5” barrels with the same primers/brass. Your 18” + Banish 30 should do the same once you dial in the node.
Run the ladder exactly as above, watch pressure like a hawk, and you’ll almost certainly have a sub-MOA hunting load that’s also a tack-driver at 100 yards. If you want, post your chrono data after the ladder and I can help you fine-tune the final charge or seating depth. Your component list is excellent—go make some tiny holes!
The Ruger is a common rifle so there’s lots of data out there. I have a Seekins PH3 in 6 Creed and the info I got from Grok on hand loading that specific rifle was a little less detailed. But, I’ve used it for load development on 4 rifles now and the accuracy nodes have been right where grok said they’d be.
So I don’t know, if you like it, use it. If not, don’t. But it works well for me and the more I use it, the better I get at asking questions in a way that get me the info I’m looking for. Have fun.
So I don’t know, if you like it, use it. If not, don’t. But it works well for me and the more I use it, the better I get at asking questions in a way that get me the info I’m looking for. Have fun.