Americans calling predators in Africa? Please advise!

L

Lochi from Africa

New member
Calling on all members for their advice.

There is a belief amongst most American hunters that it is extremely expensive to hunt in Africa. Why this myth?

Probably because their perception is that all African outfitters offer expensive, up-market safaris that could only be afforded by affluent, record-book trophy collectors who shoot the rare and expensive Big Five. Like in the movies.

I am a small African hunting outfitter who focuses on a very narrow niche market, namely the first-time-to-Africa, budget-driven, American predator caller who also wants a few antelope thrown in. Hence my banner ad on this board.

Question: How should I structure my safaris to make it most attractive to hunters such as you?
Short or long in duration? Fee per day or per animal taken? More than one client at the same time? Predators only or other varmint too? Low-priced, common plains game species as well? Some touring of South Africa as well? ... other ????

Suppose you had the inclination to hunt on another continent, how would you best have liked such a safari to be structured for you personally?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Your opinions please.
Lochi.
 
I'm thinking the safety thing too. Even though I'm sure everything is ok in your part of the country, we often hear of times when farmers are rounded up by...villagers.....and hacked to death in South Africa...that might scare people away. I'd kill to hunt your part of the world, but haven't figured it into the budget yet.
 
Here's what I think. It doesn't happen very often, (thinking), so listen up. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I would like a "shopping list" of things to choose from to hunt or do. Since this is a varmint hunting forum, lets start there. Basic 7 day trip costs X amount of dollars. Arrive on Sunday, depart on Saturday. 7 days. That means 5 full days hunting at least. Those 5 days hunting include: (list the animals available to hunt under the varmint/predator catagory). Then provide a list of other available animals and the associated fees. Next provide a list of other activities and their costs. Sightseeing, National parks, city tours, etc. Possibly even combination days, husband hunts, wife sightsees. Finally provide the cost of additional days. Varmint hunting days, X amount. Sightseeing days, X amount.
I think that 7 days would be a minimum, at least for me. Ten days would be even better.
Also make sure that you are clear on what the basic package includes. Transportation, food, rooms, laundry and maid service, whatever you want to provide. Make sure that you are clear on what is extra, plains game, licenses, taxidermy, trophy shipping, dipping, tips, and so on.
My son and I talked to an african guide about a hunt last spring. He assured us that it would be less than an Alaskan moose hunt. In the end, it was about 50% more than our moose hunt will cost. Granted, we would have been able to take more animals. So the cost per animal was less, but was more than we could afford.
Make sure you include pictures of the accomodations (sp?) and the area a client would be hunting. Nothing worse than expecting one thing and finding something completely different, (unless it is better than expected). Better to have no surprises.
That's what I think. Sounds like you could have a real good thing here. A trip to Africa sounds like fun. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Paul

p.s. Since writing the above, I have had a chance to look over your web sight. I like what I see. You are well spoken. I liked what you had on the "ideal client" page. It sounds like you are in this just for the fun of it. Probably some of the things I listed above might apply more to someone who does this full time. Simple, comfortable accomodations and good food mean more to me than all the frilly stuff. Good times with good, quality people is what I am after. I will have to get in touch with you and plan my "African Predator Safari".
 
I just love to hunt. When I hunt in my local area, soggy sandwiches, a block of cheese, some beef jerky, and a canteen full of tap water is the order of the day. Oh yea, a thermos full of coffee in the morning is a must. I have never in my life gone on a guided hunt because I have never felt the need to give my hard earned money to someone for something that I can do myself and I have been relatively successful without them. I realize there are some hunts that just don't happen without a guide and Africa is one of those hunts. Just getting the opportunity to see the animals that you have let alone hunt them would be quite an experience. Heck I get a rush out of chasing coyotes around here. I looked around on your web site a little and it really sparked my interest. I want to know more about you and your service. I think an African hunt of any kind may still only be a dream but it doesn't hurt to dream huh? I see on your site that you only go a couple of times a year. Maybe I'll find it on the site but when do you go?
I'm a nuts & bolts kind of guy and the more I can save by doing it myself the better off I am.
 
Lochi, How about a 5 day junt on the house. Travel, room and board included for me and my hunting partner and then we could be your american representatives. Yeah, that sounds good. From what I have seen , some of the hunts arent really all that expensive, except the big 5 like you said. My problem lies in the cost of travel, shipping stuff back to the states,trophy fees , and all the hidden costs that might come up. Maybe some day. I can dream cant I?
 
Thanx guys, I leant a lot from these posts! And am still listening! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Encore,
I deliberately avoid the defined price lists that you find on most sites. Reason is, as a free-lance outfitter I am not linked to any one ranch only, so I can shop around to best suit my client's needs. (E.g. some animals share the same habitat, thus we can save on travelling costs, plus prices vary across the country too for the same animals and accommodation.)
However, when people see something they want to get an immediate feel for price, which definitely leaves me with an anomaly here. The way I attempt to overcome this problem is to ask the enquirer for his first rough wish list, to which I respond with a first rough quote for budget purposes. He can then choose to walk away from it or pursue it further for variations and negotiations and fine-tuning. The fast e-mail system that we enjoy lately makes that quite viable. Point taken though.

Bob,
Yes, safety is very important. I found that most African outfitters do not seem to be sensitive to the pertinence of the safety issue, especially since 911 and in the light of the current Iraq situation. Hence the special Safety page in my site. You might want to check it out on this link and comment on it?

http://www.affordableafricanhunting.com/Main%20Buttons/Children%20of%20Your%20Safety/your_safety.htm

Paul,
Further to my above response to Encore, a comprehensive price list of all potential critters and all potential tourist attractions would be very clumsy and user-unfriendly. The variables are simply too vast.
If, however, the potential client indicates more or less what he dreams of, then I can give him a ball park feel for total costs within a day. I can then further guide him towards more cost-effective alternatives that he might not be aware of. Followed by references of course.

Taz man,
I understand what you mean when you don't want to have your nose wiped and diapers changed by some guide (who sometimes can't even hunt as well as you can!) When a hunter spends big money to hunt on another continent, you can be pretty sure he had been around the block as far as firearms and shooting and hunting and bush craft goes (especially Americans, where I can add calibers and ballistics also to this list).
(Un)fortunately there are strict hunting laws in place here to protect foreigners against unsafe practices and financial exploitation. For instance, I may take my local buddy on a local hunt and we share the expenses. We'll sleep in a tent and get by in a way of sorts, and kill many animals. But if this same buddy happens to be an American citizen, then my truck better be reliable, the accommodation better be OK, I may never leave him alone for one second in the bush (without qualified PH), the ranch's facilities must be approved, etc., etc. These things are good for the visitors, but it costs far more than what my local buddy would have paid to kill the same animals.
If you browse my other web site ("African Econo Hunter"), you'll see that I think like you do. In fact this (3 years old) site is all about how I hunt at very low cost around here, much like you do over there.

www.affordableafricanhunting.co.za

(note this site is .co.za and not .com)

Lochi.
 
I went to a Sportsmans show last weekend. I was amazed at how reasonable African hunts are. example; a trophy Colorado Elk hunt was $3800.00 plus license and travel. A 5 specie african hunt with Jackals thrown in for free was $4300.00 plus travel.License included!!!
I am nervous about the customs, travel with rifles etc. but I am very interested.
 
Lochi, I think you're right on in your beliefs about why most of us think it's too expensive. I'm in the process of planning a (primarily) plains game in Africa for the winter (May/June) of 2004. When my we (my wife and/or I) mention to someone that I'm planning it, they usually stare at us like we're crazy. "How can you afford that?" they ask. When I compare it to a typical American's vacation, then bring up how much many American families spend per month on car payments, I bring it right into perspective. Tell someone that they can skip that $500/month car payment for a year and pay for an African hunt and I get some interesting responses!

After reviewing your web site, I think you have it nailed down pretty good, at least from my point of view. But others here are right, we Americans like to comparison shop with little interference from the potential seller of a product or service. I think a lot of folks (especially the first-timer you're trying to court) might be intimidated by the lack of costs on your site. I fully understand your rationale for not posting costs, but the fact remains that we like to see, up front, what it might cost us.

What I've found in my research so far is that most outfitters' daily rates are kinda scary. Call me a simpleton, but I like the package approach, with some built-in flexibility to add a neat animal you hadn't counted on or to remove one that's just a bit to sneaky to take during your hunt. Of course I don't want to get stuck paying for the animal(s) we were unable to take. I'm looking for hunt two - my dad and myself - and don't really want to share a camp with someone I don't know from Adam, so I would say "NO" to more than one client, unless they are acquainted and familiar with each others' hunting styles. We are considering bringing our spouses and my daughter, so that is a consideration too. I hadn't really considered varmint hunting while I'm in Africa, instead preferring to focus on the plains game, but I would gladly welcome the opportunity to pursue varmints and predators when/if we're not chasing antelope. Because of my limited budget, I'm interested in what you call econo game - so again you're right on there.

I think you have it pretty well set up right now. Your basic safari structure seems sound. For instance: what I'm looking for in a safari, as a first time African hunter, is a reasonably priced 10-day hunt (maybe a couple more for seeing the sights) with a realistic opportunity to pursue and take 5-7 representative trophies during a fair chase hunt. I'm not a "collector," so I don't need the big monsters you see on "Safari Hunter's Journal" or in the gun rags. Nor am I too concerned with bringing back the heads and horns (though a kudu would look damn good in my living room!), instead I want some good photos (a bunch of them actually) and maybe a couple skull mounts and/or rugs. I don't need five star accommodations, in fact the PH's spare bedroom (or floor space) or a good tent would work for me. I do like the fact that most outfitters provide decent places to stay. A hot shower after a day in the dust, a good meal, and something to keep the rain and critters out of my bed is about as high as my expectations really go. BUT, for the daily rate that most charge, I'm not against taking advantage of their pool, spa, and deluxe accommodations.

Overall, I think you're presenting yourself very well. In fact, I would be happy to talk with you about a hunt.

Question: Why the interest in our opinion (other than the obvious) - are you not getting enough takers to keep your operation going?
 
Bofire,
South African's Customs, law enforcement and infrastructure is in another league from that of any other African country. Under our new constitution you will (probably) have more rights in this country than you have in the USA, in fact so much that law-and-order suffocates in the process, and the criminals are not prosecuted properly. There is no way that you or I will be arrested because of some stupid uniformed official at an airport that doesn't know the gun laws. You don't have to bribe him either, like in the African movies.
Travel with rifles in SA is much the same as in the US, provided you do it right as far as forms etc. goes. The SA Police regularly updates us at PHASA (Professional Hunters Association of SA) with the latest bureaucratic requirements, and PHASA places it on the Internet. (If you want to travel via England with guns that's another story!)
I got to know American hunters as not just hunters, but also firearm fanatics /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif , thus the urge to use their personal rifles. But if you view a gun as just another tool of the hunt (like me), you could easily use your PH's rifles. I did that on the 2001 PM and CG hunts in Arizona. There were so many members of this board offering me their rifles on loan, that I could easily have used a different rifle for every shot I took during those (unforgettable!!!!) ten days.

DesertRam,
From your one posting I can already form an 80% idea of what your expectations are, enough to make a first proposal. However, supposing you had simply stumbled across my site (one of many), surely you would unlikely have bothering to send me your rough wish list in anticipation of a response, right? You said it so neatly: "we Americans like to comparison shop with little interference from the potential seller". OK, I get the point! I will update my site with at least one "typical" itinerary and price that example "package", yet without undermining the flexibility and customised elements of my service, which are really my strengths. Good advice.
For sure you need your outfitter to commit him contractually to refund you for animals from the "package" not taken. That is the most common catch in the otherwise quite sound "packaged" method of pricing.
Of course you only share a camp with your own companions, which might be family or perhaps two buddies who planned the trip together. Certainly not even with strangers "who are familiar with each others' hunting styles". One hunting party per PH per camp, for sure.
Your question why this posting? Firstly I want your opinion to enable me to view myself "through the eyes of the customer". I am a firm believer (and advocate) in this principle. And I am getting just that from these posts! Secondly (but not least important) I am advertising my services in the hope of recruiting members from this board. I have decided to focus on the entry-level hunter with a flair for varmint too, hence my decision to become a paying advertiser on this board (only). There is no hidden agenda, this is formal recruitment of clientelle!
Yes, I have one client from New York State signed up for 2003, but still have enough annual leave left to take on one more safari this year. Please do not read the following as arrogance, but I have politely turned away several interested hunters who are clearly not going to be fun to guide. This is my hobby, so I want to enjoy the hunt as much as my client does. There is a section on my site called "my ideal client" which explains this policy. You also find that in order to turn down business?

Got to go, I'll be hunting baboons in my neighbour's maize fields this weekend, will only be back at this pc by Monday.
Thanx again.
Lochi.
 
Lochi,
Having conversed with you about a hunt together I'd have to say your approach is just fine.
Honest and up front, put out any potential "turn off's" and identifying your potential client as best you can then work the hunt around that in order for it to work best.

I am looking forward to coming over for a hunt with you, even though I may not necessarily fit your "ideal" client profile.

I have hunted Africa in 3 countries in 4 trips over the last 10 years.
I have taken many big game species though the best times I have had over there were fun, no pressure shoots that didn't really come into the average "safari" like culls.
I also have a bit of a fix on the smaller African predators, and no-one I have heard of till now offers a hunt specifcally for things like caracal, serval, jackal, hyaena etc..

Look forward to some more correspondance soon.

Keep well,
Joe
 
Thanx Joe,
I know you say it tongue-in-cheek when you refer to an Italian Australian not making the grading of "ideal client" profile /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif . True, I did say I prefer Americans, but that is mostly because they are open and outspoken, demanding of high service levels, and technically on top of their subject. They don't play with diplomacy and make you wonder where you stand with them.
But having said that, as a sport lover you cannot blame me for hating Australians a magnitude more than any other nation (even Kiwis!!!) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif In fact they are here right now for the Cricket World Cup, but we'll annihilate them, for sure, for sure, for sure. (You might even be here when we do that in public!) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Right now better you focus on your Canadian hunt and that exam threat.
We'll finalise detail when you get back to your pc.
Lochi.
 
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