Anybody have a load for IMR-4064 in.223?

ninehorses

ninehorses

New member
Not really!!!!

It seems that there is quite a following for Varget powder on this board, in the .223. Yes, it will work to some extent, sometimes well, but so will IMR-4064 as they are close to the same burn rate. Yep, you heard me right, check it out. They will just be dirty and slow.

We are all gulity of trying something on the shelf, rather than do research, and buy the best performing powder for that bullet case combo.

It seems that the powder manufactures are just putting new names on some old powders to generate sales, or trying to copy another brand. I'll give some examples.

H4895, TAC, and IMR-4895 are just about the same.
H4198, IMR-4198, N133, just about the same.
IMR-3031, Benchmark, Reloader7, same again.
IMR-4350, Reloader 19, H4350, are all pretty close to the same burning rate.
The list goes on, and I haven't even listed some of the newer ones.

Is it just me, but are there getting to be too many powders?

I want to get all the performance out of my reloads, but don't sell me a old tried and true powder in a new wrapper, and promise me wonderful things.

Opinions? Powder burn rates
 
Gimmick, gimmick, gimmick.

They are all in the business to sell product. Everyone has a "hook" or an "eye catcher".

Don't put stock in "burn rate charts". They don't mean much.

I invite the new powders. They give new and different "harmonics" to bullet, barrel combinations. It's fun.

Sense, and sensibility. Wade through it, good things will come.

Like IMR-4007ssc, IMR-8208xbr. CFE-223.

New powders, though close in burn to a older powder, can be game changers in your rifle bullet combination.

Varget in the 223 with conventional light bullets, is worthless.

Varget, by it's self, in other applications, is viable.
 
We get the question "What's the best" and it suprises me at some of the answers that are given. I guess some shoot one lucky group, and never retest, they just go load a hundred. They have no idea as to the speed, and don't care. They just shot the one good group, and assume all the other, not so good, were their fault.

So what is the best? A load that will work well in every rifle. There are a lot of old pet loads that have been around for years. They have won lots of matches, and are known to work in just about everything.

I would like to know what the Black Hills Lake City 52 grain HP load is. I would also like to know what the 55 grain ball is loaded with and how many grains.

I have a good Varget load in 6MM Remington with the 58 grain V-Max. Outruns the Swift with the 55's and IMR-4831.

I don't know where this thread is going. But lets try to keep it about powder.
 
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The older powders are good and I run alot of 3031, 4064 and 4895 in my small capacity cases but they are a pain to run through a measure so I pretty much use them for some of my low volume rounds like 5.6x50R, 25-204, 250 Sav. I don't shoot my 223 very often it is kind of a loaner or backup rig, it does dote on 3031 and 50gr NBT's though. For rounds I shoot alot of H-380, H-335, Benchmark and 748 see alot of uses because the run through the measure so nice.
 
24-25g of IMR 4064 with the 69's works well in most rifles with a 1 9 twist. There will be a particular primer and seating depth that your rifle likes best.

Good luck
 
Originally Posted By: ninehorses

"I don't know where this thread is going. But lets try to keep it about powder."



This is an interesting thread.

I'm older than dirt now, but when I was a young gunsmith, there was only IMR powders (which were made by DuPont down in Wilmington DE, and all shinny BLACK) and a very few ball powders like BLC2.

A that time, "Overbore" meant that the case size to bore ratio/sectional density, was so large that you couldn't find a powder slow enough to fill the case (now, "overbore" means any large case
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).

I am slow to change, but I welcome the new powders - the small grain stick powders like H-332, BM, and IMR-8202-XBR are great.

The short cut versions of oldies like 4198-SC, and 4831-SC have (for me) replaced the old long stick versions.

The very worst powder I ever tried to run through a measure was 4064
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I think that most of the new powders are real improvements over what we had in the past.

Pistol powders like Blue Dot and Unique were effective, but so filthy that you had to wash your clothes (on long cycle) after shooting them - now the Clays family and other squeaky clean powder are a joy to use.

Just my thoughts.

 
I guess what started this was looking at the burn rate chart and seeing 173 powders listed, and not finding the powder I was looking for!

That, and reading all the Varget post!
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: ninehorsesI guess what started this was looking at the burn rate chart and seeing 173 powders listed, and not finding the powder I was looking for!

That, and reading all the Varget post!
smile.gif


I am amazed at the combinations that folks use Varget for - just cuz it will shoot, doesn't mean it's a good load.

 
It'd be a boring world where we didn't have anything new to try..

As far as certain powders being almost the same, all I can say is almost is not exactly the same. Some powders that are almost the same just don't work in my loads, while some do..
 
I still use many fine older powders. SR-4756 is an ole timer that really has no apparent modern replacement. Long Shot comes close in performance but is more difficult to light in cold weather shot shell applications. Long Shot also is significantly more dense, necessitating the use of a longer wad column. SR-4756 also has a shallower exponential form up to maximum pressure (about 12KPSI) than its more modern counterparts.
Along these same lines, the now discontinued HS-7 is a powder for which I have found no direct modern replacement. There is no other powder that will drive 2.5oz of shot from a 10ga in excess of 1100fps and still keep pressures in the safe range AND still allow the use of commercially available wads without modification.
Like others have stated, I truly enjoy the variety of powders available to the handloader today. Smaller kernel versions of the oldies are a favorite of mine. I especially favor the Hodgdon XXX-SC line for big game and cold weather hunting.
There was a time when blending and classifying powders was commonplace for me to achieve the desired performance in a given cartridge. With only few exceptions, I just don’t have the need (real or perceived?) to do that anymore.
 
Originally Posted By: pcammo

"There was a time when blending and classifying powders was commonplace for me ...."



You said the forbidden "B" word!! Shame on you.

Now all the powder police will come out of the woodwork and hunt you down
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Me too did it.. and sometimes do it now.
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Originally Posted By: ninehorsesHey, somebody changed the title... to a better one!
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Well, for a 223, a 40gr V-Max and 38 grains of 4831-SC (Veeeeeery compressed
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) is probably somebodies Favorite load
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Ya' thunk??
 
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: pcammo

"There was a time when blending and classifying powders was commonplace for me ...."



You said the forbidden "B" word!! Shame on you.

Now all the powder police will come out of the woodwork and hunt you down
lol.gif


Me too did it.. and sometimes do it now.
smile.gif


Yep, expecting that knock on my door at any time
ohmy.gif


The funny thing is, the only time I have really ever spiked the pressure was when classifying some BL-C. I split the batch into three fractions (I have forgot what the screen sizes were). The middle fraction was MUCH hotter than the large or small fraction.
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ninehorses:

If 4064 is all you have, it will shoot in the .223.

Better choices for that chambering [using 50-60 grain bullets] are likely TAC and AA 2230. You didn't indicate the game you are after, or weight bullets you prefer....
 
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: ninehorsesI guess what started this was looking at the burn rate chart and seeing 173 powders listed, and not finding the powder I was looking for!

That, and reading all the Varget post!
smile.gif


I am amazed at the combinations that folks use Varget for - just cuz it will shoot, doesn't mean it's a good load.



Amen to that...Varget is one of the most anaemic powders I have tried in the 223.
 


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