Hey guys, lots of posts recently about AR-15's. I'm looking into building one and I'm having trouble figuring out what the "forward assist" is. Some uppers don't even have one. I've run across some info that it helps the bolt forward, but isn't that what the charging handle is for??? Can someone clarify what the purpose of the forward assist is. How and when its used? Thanks!
AR-15 "forward assist"
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The charging handle is used to chamber the first round. The forward assist is used if the bolt does not go completely forward (closed) after firing a round.
crapshoot
Well-known member
The charging handle is used to pull the bolt back. The spring then pushes it forward forcefully when you let go of the charging handle. The forward assist comes in real handy when you are riding the bolt forward , trying to keep noise to a minimum. Since the bolt is not comming forward with any force, you then can push on the forward assist to make sure the bolt is fully forward and in the battery position. Also comes in handy when you pull the bolt back half way to check to see if a round is/was chambered. Again, push the forward assist to make sure the bolt is all the way forward and in the battery position.
Thanks Yellow. But I guess I still don't get it, Why can't the charging handle preform the same function in the same situation? Maybe I need a more basic tutorial on the function of the AR-15 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif.
post edit
Crapshoot - we we're submitting @ the same time. your post clarifys things a bit. If I understand correctly then I guess pushing forward on the charging handle is not sufficant to ensure that the bolt is fully closed and locked proir to firing.
post edit
Crapshoot - we we're submitting @ the same time. your post clarifys things a bit. If I understand correctly then I guess pushing forward on the charging handle is not sufficant to ensure that the bolt is fully closed and locked proir to firing.
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It might can. But remember, AR-15 is just a civilian M-16. If a guy is in fire fight and the bolt don't close all the way, he can us is thumb on the forward assist a lot quicker than anything else and never take his eye off the target.
I'm no AR guy (yet) so maybe one of them can give you a better reason.
(edit): Looks like a lot of us were typing at the same time.
I'm no AR guy (yet) so maybe one of them can give you a better reason.
(edit): Looks like a lot of us were typing at the same time.
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Dan Reeves
New member
The charging hadle will not push the bolt forward in any fashion. They are not mechanically connected, it will only "hook" the bolt to pull it back.
When the bolt is locked back after emptying a magazine, the charging handle will slide back and forth freely, although it does have a catch that keeps it in the closed position.
When the bolt is locked back after emptying a magazine, the charging handle will slide back and forth freely, although it does have a catch that keeps it in the closed position.
crapshoot
Well-known member
Dan is correct. The charging handle only hooks the bolt to pull it back. If the bolt is in the locked open position, you can push the charging handle forward to the locked position as it is not attached to the bolt permanently. That is why the gun can be fired with out the charging handle comming back and breaking your nose each time the gun fires. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Clear as mud?
Clear as mud?
crapshoot
Well-known member
The forward assist does not aid in removal of a jam. It aids in the forcing of a bolt closed. To remove a jam, you either pull back the bot with the use of the charging handle or field stip the gun. You might better understand if you go to www.ar15.com and look at the actual break down of the upper or ask a local gun shop to show you how to remove the bolt and carrier from the upper and explain how it work. One you see how the charging handle is attached to the bolt , and how the forward assist works, it will be clear as day.
Well Crapshoot, if I wasn't confused before now...I'm baffled! I'll go to that site you linked to learn-up. If the bolt don't close all the way due to dirty ammo etc. isn't that a "jam"? With the forward assist no problem...just push on it. Without foreward assist stip the gun. Thats what I ment anyway. Anyway, I've got a lot of learnin' to do before my build.
OldTurtle
Moderator - Deceased
When Colt first developed the AR type to go into service in Viet Nam, there were numerous reports of feeding problems and the 'forward assist' was to alleviate this problem. I know several vets that would not accept the civilian versions without the assist as they had a hard time believing it wasn't necessary.
Using modern better grade ammunition under non-battle conditions rarely presents a problem.
I've had two with and two without and have never needed it.
Using modern better grade ammunition under non-battle conditions rarely presents a problem.
I've had two with and two without and have never needed it.
TTLS
New member
I have several huntin' acquaintances with AR's, none have ever used the forward assist. As has already been stated, the charging handle only hooks the bolt so you can pull it back. What I have been told, and plan on doing if I should experience a jam/misfeed is first, remove the magazine, second pull the charging handle back til the bolt catches open, clear the jam. After the jam is cleared, replace the magazine, depress the bolt release so the bolt rams home, chambering another round. If I get repeated misfeeds, it's time to strip the weapon and clean it.
AR-15.com is a great resource for building your AR. Days and days of reading. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
AR-15.com is a great resource for building your AR. Days and days of reading. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
ColoradoOsprey
New member
Quote:
When Colt first developed the AR type to go into service in Viet Nam, there were numerous reports of feeding problems and the 'forward assist' was to alleviate this problem.
During this same time when the A1 was issued there wasn't even a cleaning kit..they said it was space age and didn't need it. So almost all the malfunctions were caused from very dirty weapons.
In the evolution of AR's the forward assist was added to make it a more reliable combat platform...during the evolution into the A2 after learning that they needed to be cleaned, the USAF, USN and the Army all decided that the forward assist wasn't necesssary but the Marines wanted it so all subsiquent models have incorperated the forward assist increasing production cost $4 and some change per unit.
The DPMS model with out the forward assist also does not incorporate the dust cover either...but I wouldn't own a rifle that was to be used without both.
When Colt first developed the AR type to go into service in Viet Nam, there were numerous reports of feeding problems and the 'forward assist' was to alleviate this problem.
During this same time when the A1 was issued there wasn't even a cleaning kit..they said it was space age and didn't need it. So almost all the malfunctions were caused from very dirty weapons.
In the evolution of AR's the forward assist was added to make it a more reliable combat platform...during the evolution into the A2 after learning that they needed to be cleaned, the USAF, USN and the Army all decided that the forward assist wasn't necesssary but the Marines wanted it so all subsiquent models have incorperated the forward assist increasing production cost $4 and some change per unit.
The DPMS model with out the forward assist also does not incorporate the dust cover either...but I wouldn't own a rifle that was to be used without both.
I have built, owned and shot AR's since 1979 and not one single time have I ever used the forward bolt assist. I recently built a flat top with no forward assistfor use with night vision and debated milling a slot down the side and putting on a bolt handle but since I have never needed the assist I figure I likely wont need the handle either. I do always put teardrop type forward assist on rifles I build to sell because it looks good and helps to sell the rifle.
Vaportrail
New member
Years back when the weapon of topic was capabile to fire "full auto" the weapon, the M16 due to sand,expended powder,dirt and heat from the weapon being fired on automatic, the cycling system would hang with the bolt carrier sticking and the bolt not all the way forward, thus the forward assist was born! Now "Joe" could still fire Auto and apply "SPORTS" = IMMEDIATE ACTION Which stands for Slap, Pull,Observe,Tap forward on the forward assist, and squezze the trigger. to his weapon and continue on in the heat of battle.
The weapon will still (due to lack of maintenence)experience a hung carrier but not as common as when the weapon was capabile to shoot full auto.
Vaportrail /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
The weapon will still (due to lack of maintenence)experience a hung carrier but not as common as when the weapon was capabile to shoot full auto.
Vaportrail /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Bayou City Boy
New member
"During this same time when the A1 was issued there wasn't even a cleaning kit..they said it was space age and didn't need it. So almost all the malfunctions were caused from very dirty weapons."
+++++++++++++++++++++++
Cleaning issues were part of the early problem. However, the main reason the rifles became so dirty fairly quickly was that the US government had a large stock of powder left over from the M-14 days - and in spite of Colt's warning - much of the early 5.56 ammo was loaded with this powder that fouled the rifles excessively.
This problem, coupled with some soft brass from Winchester which was used early on, and which ripped in the rim area upon extraction, caused some unfortunate GI's to use their new cleaning rods to try to get stuck rounds from the dirty chambers. Sadly...some of them died trying to do just that.
The forward assist came about as a political solution to the other problems......the addition of a chrome bore and chamber was a good addition for the jungle environment of Viet Nam. Also, using the proper powders, increasing the stength of the 5.56 brass, and better cleaning procedures all helped to make the M-16 reliable and stil the US' primary infantry weapon - with a few changess since then.
-BCB
+++++++++++++++++++++++
Cleaning issues were part of the early problem. However, the main reason the rifles became so dirty fairly quickly was that the US government had a large stock of powder left over from the M-14 days - and in spite of Colt's warning - much of the early 5.56 ammo was loaded with this powder that fouled the rifles excessively.
This problem, coupled with some soft brass from Winchester which was used early on, and which ripped in the rim area upon extraction, caused some unfortunate GI's to use their new cleaning rods to try to get stuck rounds from the dirty chambers. Sadly...some of them died trying to do just that.
The forward assist came about as a political solution to the other problems......the addition of a chrome bore and chamber was a good addition for the jungle environment of Viet Nam. Also, using the proper powders, increasing the stength of the 5.56 brass, and better cleaning procedures all helped to make the M-16 reliable and stil the US' primary infantry weapon - with a few changess since then.
-BCB
also consider that the early M-16's did not have chromed chambers and in Nam it was humid and things rusted and deteriated badly. With improper cleaning and lack of maintanence, due to being told you didn't have to, the forward assist became a "cure." When the military started issuing the little "comic book" about cleaning, and chromed the chamber, the forward assist became a lesser cure for the problems.
Jack Roberts
Moderator - Deceased
Can I say BS?
I was there in early Vietnam, carried the early X version of the M16. It functoned perfectly.
Somebody has been listening to BS news.
Been there, done that, missed the T-shirt though.
Jack
I was there in early Vietnam, carried the early X version of the M16. It functoned perfectly.
Somebody has been listening to BS news.
Been there, done that, missed the T-shirt though.
Jack