ballistic tip for coyotes?

O

ohihunter2014

New member
I generally run a 50-55gr V max or now Nosler Varmageddon BT for coyotes and woodchucks but have never shot a coyote with one but this got me thinking.

I attended a seminar for coyote hunting last weekend and the speaker said he shoots only soft point and doesn't like a ballistic tip or hollow point for coyotes and generally shoots them in the head. When asked why he doesn't like BT he said more penetration.

Is this really an issue with Ballistic tips? Have i been using the wrong ammo for coyotes this whole time?
 
You do what you want but I am going to keep using the ballistic tips. But this so called expert that would rather take a head shot which is a smaller always moving target can keep his opinion. I would rather take a chest shot with my ballistic tip ammo that I know works if I put it where I want. Rather than taking a head shot. But to each is their own.
 


If I am hunting with my AR.
I shoot Lake City 55gr, FMJ.
Like the fellow said he shoot them in the head.
I have been loading for a long time, soft and hollow points do a fine job.
When Palma and F class start shooting plastic tips I may try them.
My 220 swift like 40gr hollows points.
 
Originally Posted By: reloader326Plenty of coyotes have been killed with ballistic tipped bullets, I wouldn't switch.
Were you in Ashland and the Fin, Feather Fur?

PM sent
 
Originally Posted By: willy1947

If I am hunting with my AR.
I shoot Lake City 55gr, FMJ.
Like the fellow said he shoot them in the head.
I have been loading for a long time, soft and hollow points do a fine job.
When Palma and F class start shooting plastic tips I may try them.
My 220 swift like 40gr hollows points.


You lost me with the Palma and F class comment.
 
Bullet design, FPS, twist, shot placement,distance, experience and even age of the shooter all are factors with any bullet.

I don't think I've ever killed a coyote or fox that was not a poly or HP tipped bullet. If I have it was only one or 2 at most.

Head shots are not the best choice for the average hunter/shooter. Heck there are plenty that can not get the shot correct on the vitals of a broadside coyote.
 
i'd like to point out that a lot of "experts" are so expert at what they do that they refuse to even consider the pros and cons of things outside of their comfort zone of expertise. it works for them, and has probably worked repeatedly, so there's no need for them to stray outside of said comfort zone.

and obviously if you're an awesome enough shot to take head shots all the time successfully, your bullet choice likely isnt going to matter one bit. fmj's - if legal to hunt with - will get the job done as well as a balistic tip, a SP, or a HP.

soft points have been getting it done for decades now for hunters in many many many many applications, and if you do your part - they'll do theirs. That doesnt necessarily make them any better or worse. it just proves that older technology can still be effective.

for the rest of us, we'd be foolish to ignore modern bullet design advantages - especially for those who hunt at extended ranges for the cartridges we've chosen to take afield. however as such we may need to do a little more homework to make sure that the bullet choice we're making are suitable for the intended application.


55gr vmax have taken LOTS of coyotes. Dont second guess yourself because one "expert" has had success with a different technology and refuses to look outside their self imposed box. While there are many options to make a critter room temperature, the end result is still room temperature.



I'd worry more about getting your target in front of you and making a good shot than fretting over a proven poly tip vs a proven soft lead tipped bullet.
 
Originally Posted By: Tim NeitzkeBullet design, FPS, twist, shot placement,distance, experience and even age of the shooter all are factors with any bullet.

I don't think I've ever killed a coyote or fox that was not a poly or HP tipped bullet. If I have it was only one or 2 at most.

Head shots are not the best choice for the average hunter/shooter. Heck there are plenty that can get the shot correct on the vitals of a broadside coyote. Originally Posted By: Plant.Onei'd like to point out that a lot of "experts" are so expert at what they do that they refuse to even consider the pros and cons of things outside of their comfort zone of expertise. it works for them, and has probably worked repeatedly, so there's no need for them to stray outside of said comfort zone.

and obviously if you're an awesome enough shot to take head shots all the time successfully, your bullet choice likely isnt going to matter one bit. fmj's - if legal to hunt with - will get the job done as well as a balistic tip, a SP, or a HP.

soft points have been getting it done for decades now for hunters in many many many many applications, and if you do your part - they'll do theirs. That doesnt necessarily make them any better or worse. it just proves that older technology can still be effective.

for the rest of us, we'd be foolish to ignore modern bullet design advantages - especially for those who hunt at extended ranges for the cartridges we've chosen to take afield. however as such we may need to do a little more homework to make sure that the bullet choice we're making are suitable for the intended application.


55gr vmax have taken LOTS of coyotes. Dont second guess yourself because one "expert" has had success with a different technology and refuses to look outside their self imposed box. While there are many options to make a critter room temperature, the end result is still room temperature.



I'd worry more about getting your target in front of you and making a good shot than fretting over a proven poly tip vs a proven soft lead tipped bullet.


Thanks guys. Even though its a mangy coyote i still hate having things suffer or run off wounded or what not so just making sure before i run out and buy more bullets.
 
I shoot 55 gr sp in .223.

I am sure vmax works too, but NBT are slightly more stout and less likely to splash.

It is important to stick with heavier bullets in .223. 55gr +

If you shoot something bigger, bullet selection matters less. No coyote is going to survive a solid hit from any .243 projectile...

Shooting in the head seems like a great way to miss and or wound a coyote. I would never choose a head shot unless all I could see was the head poking up over a bush. That is a really small target, even broadside the heart and lungs are only like a 5 to 8 inch target under all that fur...
 
I switched from Vmaxs to Sierra SP and am much happier with the soft points.

If the ballistic tips work for you then stick with them. Something about my calling method leaves me with more than 50% quartering to me shots, to hit the vitals I have to shoot through a shoulder in that scenario, Berger varmint hollow points were very bad at that and Vmaxs not much better.

The 65gr Sierra Gamekings go through shoulder like butter and leave small exit holes no matter what angle or area I hit them at.

When I was using HP or Vmax I was increasing powder charge so I could smash through shoulders better but that led to lots of splash damage on shoulder impact and a lot of damage on exits when I got broadside shots and avoided the shoulder. Soft points have been giving me great results no matter how the coyote is standing. And another bonus is that load development for the soft points are much more forgiving and have been much more accurate for me vs the ballistic tips, the Berger HPs shot just as good as the SP but were way too soft a bullet for me.
 
Originally Posted By: TripleDeuce660I shoot 55 gr sp in .223.

I am sure vmax works too, but NBT are slightly more stout and less likely to splash.

It is important to stick with heavier bullets in .223. 55gr +

If you shoot something bigger, bullet selection matters less. No coyote is going to survive a solid hit from any .243 projectile...

Shooting in the head seems like a great way to miss and or wound a coyote. I would never choose a head shot unless all I could see was the head poking up over a bush. That is a really small target, even broadside the heart and lungs are only like a 5 to 8 inch target under all that fur...

I am using the Nosler Varmageddon BT. I hear they are a thinner jacket so would this give "splash"?
 
Originally Posted By: TripleDeuce660I shoot 55 gr sp in .223.

I am sure vmax works too, but NBT are slightly more stout and less likely to splash.

It is important to stick with heavier bullets in .223. 55gr +

If you shoot something bigger, bullet selection matters less. No coyote is going to survive a solid hit from any .243 projectile...

Shooting in the head seems like a great way to miss and or wound a coyote. I would never choose a head shot unless all I could see was the head poking up over a bush. That is a really small target, even broadside the heart and lungs are only like a 5 to 8 inch target under all that fur... Originally Posted By: Rock KnockerI switched from Vmaxs to Sierra SP and am much happier with the soft points.

If the ballistic tips work for you then stick with them. Something about my calling method leaves me with more than 50% quartering to me shots, to hit the vitals I have to shoot through a shoulder in that scenario, Berger varmint hollow points were very bad at that and Vmaxs not much better.

The 65gr Sierra Gamekings go through shoulder like butter and leave small exit holes no matter what angle or area I hit them at.

When I was using HP or Vmax I was increasing powder charge so I could smash through shoulders better but that led to lots of splash damage on shoulder impact and a lot of damage on exits when I got broadside shots and avoided the shoulder. Soft points have been giving me great results no matter how the coyote is standing. And another bonus is that load development for the soft points are much more forgiving and have been much more accurate for me vs the ballistic tips, the Berger HPs shot just as good as the SP but were way too soft a bullet for me.

You guys using a SP like Hornady SP w/c? Something keeps telling me stay away from a SP w/c due to accuracy. I haven't tested a SP but any BT ive ran through the gun shoots half MOA.
 
Nosler 55 bt out of my rem 22-250. I don't shoot my 223 much anymore when I do it is a 50 gr Hornady sx, plenty of mag room and is a fur saver.
 
Originally Posted By: ohihunter2014Originally Posted By: TripleDeuce660I shoot 55 gr sp in .223.

I am sure vmax works too, but NBT are slightly more stout and less likely to splash.

It is important to stick with heavier bullets in .223. 55gr +

If you shoot something bigger, bullet selection matters less. No coyote is going to survive a solid hit from any .243 projectile...

Shooting in the head seems like a great way to miss and or wound a coyote. I would never choose a head shot unless all I could see was the head poking up over a bush. That is a really small target, even broadside the heart and lungs are only like a 5 to 8 inch target under all that fur... Originally Posted By: Rock KnockerI switched from Vmaxs to Sierra SP and am much happier with the soft points.

If the ballistic tips work for you then stick with them. Something about my calling method leaves me with more than 50% quartering to me shots, to hit the vitals I have to shoot through a shoulder in that scenario, Berger varmint hollow points were very bad at that and Vmaxs not much better.

The 65gr Sierra Gamekings go through shoulder like butter and leave small exit holes no matter what angle or area I hit them at.

When I was using HP or Vmax I was increasing powder charge so I could smash through shoulders better but that led to lots of splash damage on shoulder impact and a lot of damage on exits when I got broadside shots and avoided the shoulder. Soft points have been giving me great results no matter how the coyote is standing. And another bonus is that load development for the soft points are much more forgiving and have been much more accurate for me vs the ballistic tips, the Berger HPs shot just as good as the SP but were way too soft a bullet for me.

You guys using a SP like Hornady SP w/c? Something keeps telling me stay away from a SP w/c due to accuracy. I haven't tested a SP but any BT ive ran through the gun shoots half MOA.

I use the hornaday 55 gr sp that comes in the 50 round boxes. It shoots right around moa. MOA is good enough for me as I shoot factory ammo and don't like shooting at the bench much. Next week I am testing 55 gr NBT and 70 gr NBT in my .243. I do not keep fur, so a .243 size entrance and a watermelon size exit or no exit is what I am looking for...
 
If I ever miss anything that I shoot at while hunting because I was using a lead tipped bullet instead of a polymer/ballistic tipped bullet with a higher BC, I need to improve my hunting skills to get the game in closer.

Bullet BC and other assorted "stuff" is way over-rated at normal hunting distances in order to be a successful. But it does make for some good internet reading and discussions.
grin.gif
 
Originally Posted By: ohihunter2014Originally Posted By: willy1947

If I am hunting with my AR.
I shoot Lake City 55gr, FMJ.
Like the fellow said he shoot them in the head.
I have been loading for a long time, soft and hollow points do a fine job.
When Palma and F class start shooting plastic tips I may try them.
My 220 swift like 40gr hollows points.


You lost me with the Palma and F class comment.

Bullets for long range shoot. Palma and F class matches use open tipped bullets. Plastic tipped were first used in lever rifles. the plastic tip is just for sales.
 
To what ohihunter asked. I shoot 50gr Hornady SP and they shoot very well. That 50gr SP load is a cheap plinking load I made to stock up on with H335 and CCI400 primers, NOT a good combo for sub zero hunting, they really run out of steam in below zero, but when I plink and shoot more volume during the warmer months they are as good as my best hunting load and I'm sure the bullet would be great on coyotes too.

I haven't shot any of the hornadys with a canalure, honestly I would be surprised if they shot poorly, and just because it has a canalure doesn't mean you have to crimp them.

My coyote load right now is CCI450 primers, CFE223 and 65gr SGK. I developed that load for a pipe dream of a hog hunt this winter, never happened but I am simply tickled with that load. 16" BHW barrel and drops at range are saying 3100+fps and when I hold my little 1-4x scope just right the bullet holes are touching, a real hammer for a compact AR but easy on even fox fur at the same time.
 


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