body die vs. full-length sizing die?

I believe all the body die does is push the shoulder back without touching the rest of the case. The way I understand it you use a neck sizing die and then the body die. You would want to use a Hornady or Sinclair gauge to tell how far the shoulder is being pushed back. I set my full length die so it pushes the shoulder back 2 thouandths for easy chambering without overworking the brass.
 
George,
Just for info, I use a Redding Body Die and Redding Competition Shell Holders strictly for bumping the shoulders. I do that first and then Neck Size, etc. I've had better and more consistent sizing rather than using a Full-Length Die to bump shoulders.
 
could always use your fl die and partial resize the brass. Helps extend brass life with out the cost of aditional dies. Just my .02 cents
 
The Redding body die does resize the whole body of the case and push the shoulder back. It works the same as a fl sizing die but does not touch the neck. Keeping neck sizing and body sizing separate operations makes for more consistant accuracy. The loaded round is more concentric with less runout. I have proven this to myself many times with a case runout gage. The expander plug on fl sizing dies is the cause of crooked case necks.
 
I shoot a 243 WSSM and was having problems with the brass would not go into the chamber properly and thought it was head space problem and I bumped the shoulder back but still would not load properly. I researched the problem and started measuring the the body and the bass of the cartage was expanded from bumping the shoulder back to much, bought a body die and run the brass through it. Solved the problem, I donot think the body die bumps the shoulder back.
 
Originally Posted By: Carolina CoyoteI donot think the body die bumps the shoulder back.




In practice, this depends totally on the chamber dimension, die dimension and die adjustment.

But typically, body dies absolutely do push the shoulder back. That's precisely what I use them for.

- DAA
 
I'm a believer in the Redding Body Die. I use them for the 223, 308 and 30-06.

They can be used at the time of reloading or when you find a round won't chamber without excessive force. I have safely used the loaded round in my press with the Body Die, resulting in a perfectly resized case that chambered smoothly.

The body die will resize the case and bump the shoulder back, so you really need to use a lube to be on the safe side. I prefer using Imperial Wax/Lube.

I set the body die up in this fashion:

1. Remove the firing pin from the bolt. I use the Rem 700, so it's very easy - other makes, leave the firing pin in, if you want but know the feel for closing the bolt on a commercial round and strive for the same pressure.

2. Run a lubed case through the body die, wipe off lube and attempt to chamber the round. The bolt should close using finger pressure. If the bolt doesn't close or takes effort to chamber - turn the die down 1/4 turn and repeat until you get the bolt to close with finger pressure.

If the bolt closes by itself - just drops down on the chamber case - that means you've bumped the shoulder way to much - turn the die back up 1/4 turn until you get the desired pressure. That case will have excessive headspace, so don't load max plus with that particular case. Keep using different unsized cases to find the sweet spot, if the bolt initially closed by itself.

Once you have it set - you're golden for that particular firearm and by running your case through the body die - it will chamber that round like a hot knife going through soft butter.

Different firearm - start over and do it right again.

That's how I do it and it's always worked for me 100% of the time and I've been at it for awhile.

I've currently got one on order from Hornady for a wildcat 22 centerfire. It cost a $bunch compared to the commercial Redding Body Die but I feel I need it. Ben is the technician at Hornady and his turn around time back last June was 12-15 weeks, so I'm getting close.
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Depending on chamber dimensions, some body dies size the case more than regular dies. Something that you don't often think about is "Spring Back", where you size the case, then it springs back a little.

I have used Standard Forster neck sizing dies to bump back shoulders for many years. Forster also makes a bushing shoulder bump die which I found to be excellent in my 6.5x47 Lapua running warm loads.

Dies vs chamber dimensions are a quagmire of problems.

Many guys do not like the body dies because they push the shoulder back too far when the web is sized to the proper dimension. Chambers(reamers) can vary greatly, not to mention if the gunsmith actually cuts the chamber to reamer dimension. Factory chambers are all over the map.

For a coyote hunting rifle, all of this maybe picking the black specks out of the pepper.

I have used a Body Die to full length size loaded ammo, although Redding does not recommend this. This is useful when having a new barrel installed where there is a difference in headspace between the two barrels.
 
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Originally Posted By: ackleyman
I have used a Body Die to full length size loaded ammo, although Redding does not recommend this. This is useful when having a new barrel installed where there is a difference in headspace between the two barrels.

Boy howdy is this every true! After I had my new Shilen match barrel installed on my CZ 527 in .17 Hornet I had trouble chambering my handloads that were developed for the factory barrel. Some took a bit of effort to close the bolt and some did not want to chamber at all. Oh dear!

Midway to the rescue! They had one Redding .17 Hornet body die in stock and it was even on sale. I have one for my .17 Remington too and I was hoping that the .17 Hornet version would work well for me. It did! I ran all of my loaded ammo through that die and now it all chambers like factory ammo. Not only that, but on my last trip to the range it shot some very fine groups too with both the 20 grain Vmax and the 20 grain Bergers. Especially the Bergers. One five shot less than 1/4" at 100 yards. Man! That's what I'm talkin' about there!
 
Where were you guys when I needed you last week!!?
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Quote:Oh, right next to the MT .38 brass was a box marked, in big red letters, DO NOT FIRE....OVERSIZED! Opening the box I found 78 rounds of 7.62 NATO Match brass loaded w/150 gr. SMK's from old competition days (ended in 1999)???? Don't recall the details, could have been for service rifle or bolt gun, but sure enough, wouldn't chamber in the Scout either, soooo. Set up the old Herter's press to pull the bullets, resized cases and transferred the powder/bullets case to case on the Dillon.

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/for...691#Post3251691

Sure would have saved some time. Live and learn....if I live long enough, I might even get smart....Nah...
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Regards,
hm
 
Originally Posted By: hm1996Where were you guys when I needed you last week!!?
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Quote:Oh, right next to the MT .38 brass was a box marked, in big red letters, DO NOT FIRE....OVERSIZED! Opening the box I found 78 rounds of 7.62 NATO Match brass loaded w/150 gr. SMK's from old competition days (ended in 1999)???? Don't recall the details, could have been for service rifle or bolt gun, but sure enough, wouldn't chamber in the Scout either, soooo. Set up the old Herter's press to pull the bullets, resized cases and transferred the powder/bullets case to case on the Dillon.

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/for...691#Post3251691

Sure would have saved some time. Live and learn....if I live long enough, I might even get smart....Nah...
unsure.gif


Regards,
hm

Ole Herter's press - Herter's was the "Boss" back in the day. You might be an old fart?
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Originally Posted By: JoeyJOle Herter's press - Herter's was the "Boss" back in the day. You might be an old fart?
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Might be!
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Started reloading for my first center fire (38-40 Mod. 92 Win.) in '50 or '51 with a Lyman 310 Tong Tool.


Upgraded in 1955 to the Herter's #3. Had to put stronger spring on loading arm right away, but the 'ol Herter's and I still make a pretty good team in single stage (both of us)
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Regards,
hm
 
I have started using Redding Type S FL bushing dies. They are handy as I can load multiple of cartridges 20P, 223, 6x45 or 204, 22-204, 6mm-204 and 25-204 with just the 223 and 204 dies plus I can pull the bushings and use them as body dies.
 
Yup, you have ole fart status and that closed cell trail bed looks to be a "Browning" from the 70's - at least it looks just like mine.

Well cared for Herter's press you have there - can't remember the color of ours, but I don't recall it being ox-blood?

AWS - that is a great idea.
 
If you have a 7/8 14 die, mark 18 even segments(a line every 20 degrees around the die)each 20 degree turn of the die in(down) equals about 0.004 inches of shoulder bump not counting spring back. So easy does it adjusting the die once you are making true shoulder contact in the die. Camming over a die a 1/4 turn past shoulder contact may get you 0.015 of shoulder bump,way,way too much.
 
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