Bullet dropping from sky

Ernest II

New member
I do not reccomend shooting up unless out in the wilderness or have a back stop. Im talking about rimfires here. That being said I have a dumb question or maybe 3 or 4.LOL If a 17 gr hmr bullet is fire up at say a squirrel and misses when the bullet returns to earth would it have enough force to wound or even kill a person?I would not think so because it would be falling as if it were just dropped not fired at 2600 FPS. Am I wrong in thinking this.Forgive me but the older I get the more about physics I forget. Can someone elaborate? And does the bullet pick up speed while falling or not? Again I would not think so.
Daryl P.
 
People for years hunted squirrel with .22 long rifles and they weight 40 grains a .17 grain would be much less than it. Plus also think about a piece of hail falling to earth which a lot of times weights much more than 17 grains. Although it's larger diameter may slow it down. But if the bullet only arched and came down it could have a lot more speed than just falling from the sky. There is some smart people on here someone will have a calculation!
 
A bullet falling from the sky with no downward force besides gravity pulling it earthwards would prolly be about 176fps.. it would still hurt if it hit you on the noggin. JMO
 
Originally Posted By: Ernest III do not reccomend shooting up unless out in the wilderness or have a back stop. Im talking about rimfires here. That being said I have a dumb question or maybe 3 or 4.LOL If a 17 gr hmr bullet is fire up at say a squirrel and misses when the bullet returns to earth would it have enough force to wound or even kill a person?I would not think so because it would be falling as if it were just dropped not fired at 2600 FPS. Am I wrong in thinking this.Forgive me but the older I get the more about physics I forget. Can someone elaborate? And does the bullet pick up speed while falling or not? Again I would not think so.
Daryl P.

Sounds as if you are speaking of firing straight up. Have always heard that a bullet fired straigt up will return to earth at the same velocity as it was fired. Not a mathematician by any stretch of the imagination (so don't ask me to explain the formula
smile.gif
) but this seems to support that theory:

Quote: Along y
The bullet leaves the gun with a high velocity. The entire kinetic energy of the y-component is converted to potential energy at the top (where velocity in y-direction=0). On its way down, the potential energy is converted back to the exact same kinetic energy, giving the bullet a velocity equal in magnitude to the initial velocity, but in the opposite direction.

http://www.quora.com/Physics/When-a-gun-...comes-back-down


Obviously not a good idea to discharge a rifle/pistol into the air.

Regards,
hm
 
Originally Posted By: hm1996Originally Posted By: Ernest III do not reccomend shooting up unless out in the wilderness or have a back stop. Im talking about rimfires here. That being said I have a dumb question or maybe 3 or 4.LOL If a 17 gr hmr bullet is fire up at say a squirrel and misses when the bullet returns to earth would it have enough force to wound or even kill a person?I would not think so because it would be falling as if it were just dropped not fired at 2600 FPS. Am I wrong in thinking this.Forgive me but the older I get the more about physics I forget. Can someone elaborate? And does the bullet pick up speed while falling or not? Again I would not think so.
Daryl P.

Sounds as if you are speaking of firing straight up. Have always heard that a bullet fired straigt up will return to earth at the same velocity as it was fired. Not a mathematician by any stretch of the imagination (so don't ask me to explain the formula
smile.gif
) but this seems to support that theory:

Quote: Along y
The bullet leaves the gun with a high velocity. The entire kinetic energy of the y-component is converted to potential energy at the top (where velocity in y-direction=0). On its way down, the potential energy is converted back to the exact same kinetic energy, giving the bullet a velocity equal in magnitude to the initial velocity, but in the opposite direction.

http://www.quora.com/Physics/When-a-gun-...comes-back-down


Obviously not a good idea to discharge a rifle/pistol into the air.

Regards,
hm
grin.gif
I'm glad these folks from quora physics weren't in charge of building our nuclear weapons in WW2. The answer is aprox. 90 m/sec. Second paragraph in the examples section. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_velocity I don't think it would feel very good to get whacked in the head by one at about 290 fps.
 
I can only relate a true story from the Missouri State Highway Patrol....

Several years ago, one of our Troopers was stopping a stolen car along I-70...The suspect driver bailed out and took off across an open field at a high rate of speed..

The Trooper exited his vehicle with his shotgun, loaded with 00 Buck (normal) and in an attempt to get the guy to stop, fired a warning shot with the shotgun in the air...

One pellet from the round struck the suspect in the top rear of his head and killed him on the spot...Distance - 497 Yards...Trooper was cleared of deadly force use due to the circumstances that dictated it was not a foreseeable result in the occurrence...

I realize that the .32" round pellet is probably heavier than either a .22 or .17 bullet, but not something I would want to take a chance with...I was always taught that a pound of feathers falls at the same rate as a pound of lead.....
 

Wow, 497 yds w/00 buck! It was just his day to depart this earth, OT. Talk about the golden BB!
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Here's a rather interesting experiment conducted by the Dept. of the Army regarding falling bullets.

Quote:Bullets in the Sky

We frequently get questions about firing bullets vertically into the air. The most frequent question is, "Will bullets fired into the air return to the earth at the same speed they left the gun?" Other questions asked are; "How far does the bullet travel when fired vertically and how long does it take to come down, or does the falling bullet have enough energy to be lethal should it strike someone on the ground?"

Some have tried vertical shooting, but very few have had any luck hearing the bullet come back and strike the ground. When a bullet is fired vertically it immediately begins to slow down because of the effects of gravity and air drag on the bullet. The bullet deceleration continues until at some point the bullet momentarily stops and then it begins to fall back toward earth. A well-balanced bullet will fall base first. Depending on bullet design, some bullets may tumble on their way down and others may turn over and come down point first.

The bullet speed will increase until it reaches its terminal velocity. The bullet reaches terminal velocity when the air drag equals the pull of gravity or stating it another way, the bullet weight and drag are balanced. Once this velocity is achieved the bullet will fall no faster.

In 1920 the U.S. Army Ordnance conducted a series of experiments to try and determine the velocity of falling bullets. The tests were performed from a platform in the middle of a lake near Miami, Florida. The platform was ten feet square and a thin sheet of armor plate was placed over the men firing the gun. The gun was held in a fixture that would allow the gun to be adjusted to bring the shots close to the platform. It was surmised that the sound of the falling bullets could be heard when they hit the water or the platform.

They fired .30 caliber, 150 gr., Spitzer point bullets, at a velocity of 2,700 f.p.s. Using the bullet ballistic coefficient and elapsed time from firing until the bullet struck the water, they calculated that the bullet traveled 9,000 feet in 18 seconds and fell to earth in 31 seconds for a total time of 49 seconds.

As a comparison, the .30 caliber bullet fired in a vacuum at 2,700 f.p.s. would rise nearly 21.5 miles and require 84 seconds to make the ascent and another 84 seconds to make its descent. It would return with the same velocity that it left the gun. This gives you some idea of what air resistance or drag does to a bullet in flight.

Wind can have a dramatic effect on where a vertically fired bullet lands. A 5 mile per hour wind will displace the 150 gr. bullet about 365 ft based on the time it takes the bullet to make the round trip to earth. In addition the wind at ground level may be blowing in an entirely different direction than it is at 9,000 feet. It is no wonder that it is so difficult to determine where a falling bullet will land.

Out of the more than 500 shots fired from the test platform only 4 falling bullets struck the platform and one fell in the boat near the platform. One of the bullets striking the platform left a 1/16 inch deep mark in the soft pine board. The bullet struck base first.

Based on the results of these tests it was concluded that the bullet return velocity was about 300 f.p.s. For the 150 gr. bullet this corresponds to an energy of 30 foot pounds. Earlier the Army had determined that, on the average, it required 60 foot pounds of energy to produce a disabling wound. Based on this information, a falling 150 gr. service bullet would not be lethal, although it could produce a serious wound.

Many other experiments have been made to find the amount of air drag on a .30 caliber bullet at various velocities and it was found that the drag at 320 f.p.s. balances the weight of the .021 lb. (150 gr.) bullet and terminal velocity is achieved. For larger calibers the bullet terminal velocity is higher since the bullet weight is greater in relation to the diameter. Major Julian Hatcher in his book Hatcher’s Notebook estimates that a 12 inch shell weighing 1000 pounds and fired straight up would return with a speed of 1,300 to 1,400 feet per second and over 28 million foot pounds of striking energy.

Watch our web site for the next topic of interest "How Far Will My Gun Shoot." Until then, shoot safely and know where you bullets are going.

Sincerely,

The Ballistician

http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/March01.htm



Regards,
hm
 
If they were deadly there wouldn't be 5 people living in most muslim countrys. Every news cast shows a bunch of ragheads firing straight up with their AK's.
 
The bullet shot at a squirrel, is probably shot at an angle, not straight up. So it will return to earth at a velocity greater than if falling straight down. I never understood shooting squirrels with a .22 anyway. A shotgun is much safer. Mabey back in the day when nobody lived in the country, but today, living in the country is all the rage. It is just asking for trouble.

tom
 
Originally Posted By: TnslimIf they were deadly there wouldn't be 5 people living in most muslim countrys. Every news cast shows a bunch of ragheads firing straight up with their AK's.

Very, very true.......
 
Originally Posted By: MGYSGTThe bullet shot at a squirrel, is probably shot at an angle, not straight up. So it will return to earth at a velocity greater than if falling straight down. I never understood shooting squirrels with a .22 anyway. A shotgun is much safer. Mabey back in the day when nobody lived in the country, but today, living in the country is all the rage. It is just asking for trouble.

tom

You hunt tree squirrels much?
rolleyes.gif
 
Quote:You hunt tree squirrels much?


Naaaah, he moved out of timber country due to all the fallin' bullets.
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smile.gif


All joking aside, I'm w/Gunny....can't understand shooting a rifle upward (anywhere there is no backstop for that matter). Around here it's unsafe to go outside on New Years eve due to all the gunfire and I'm sure 99% is directed upward.

Regards,
hm
 
Originally Posted By: MGYSGTThe bullet shot at a squirrel, is probably shot at an angle, not straight up. So it will return to earth at a velocity greater than if falling straight down.

I think this it wrong. Gravity is gravity no matter the angle.
 
Originally Posted By: OldTurtleI can only relate a true story from the Missouri State Highway Patrol....

Several years ago, one of our Troopers was stopping a stolen car along I-70...The suspect driver bailed out and took off across an open field at a high rate of speed..

The Trooper exited his vehicle with his shotgun, loaded with 00 Buck (normal) and in an attempt to get the guy to stop, fired a warning shot with the shotgun in the air...

One pellet from the round struck the suspect in the top rear of his head and killed him on the spot...Distance - 497 Yards...Trooper was cleared of deadly force use due to the circumstances that dictated it was not a foreseeable result in the occurrence...

I realize that the .32" round pellet is probably heavier than either a .22 or .17 bullet, but not something I would want to take a chance with...I was always taught that a pound of feathers falls at the same rate as a pound of lead.....

One of the four common gun safety rules is to never point the gun at anything you are unwilling to destroy. As freak of an incident as this was for that officer and suspect it demonstrates how sound a principle that gun safety rule really is.
 
i have no clue how many times i have been hit by shot during duck season even at 200 yards it just stings a little when it hits bare skin.
 
Ive been pepper with shot opening day of dove season. We were standing in the hay barn waiting for the hunters to push one towards us.

BOOM!* Sounds like it starts to rain on the tin roof.


BOOM!* Sounds like hail just peppered the tractor next to us.

BOOM!* OW! @$^# What the @$%^ was that?! It fealt like someone had taken a handful of pee gravel and threw at us. There was two hunters 200+ yards out blasting at any bird that flew, even the pigeons we sent scrambling out of the barn.


I dont know much about this stuff but If I bullet was fired straight up it will reach a peak of 0 FPS before returning. I dont see how it will accelerate downwards and achieve its initial velocity. BUT when a bullet is fired on an arc it never reaches 0 FPS. It will slow down but after it reaches its peak and starts to descend wouldnt it gain a bit of velocity back? As well as momentum?

Im sure if ya'll give me 2-3 years I can do all of the math for this. At least I hope so.
lol.gif
 


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