With having only limited experience with bushing neck dies, and their cost, I am wondering if I can successfully use a bushing neck die for say 300 wsm with 308 brass? Does the die actually support the case body in any way, or does the bushing truly only act on the neck? My experience with the 17HH neck die for 17AH makes me wonder if the case body needs to be supported. My guess is that with little fragile brass like the 17AH, that support is needed, but that for stronger brass like most calibers that it would not be an issue?
Bushing neck dies, multiple caliber use?
- Thread starter 6724
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CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: 6724With having only limited experience with bushing neck dies, and their cost, I am wondering if I can successfully use a bushing neck die for say 300 wsm with 308 brass? Does the die actually support the case body in any way, or does the bushing truly only act on the neck? My experience with the 17HH neck die for 17AH makes me wonder if the case body needs to be supported. My guess is that with little fragile brass like the 17AH, that support is needed, but that for stronger brass like most calibers that it would not be an issue?
If the die body is long enough, you can use it - the calibre makes no difference - the case "body" itself, does not touch the die.
If the die body is long enough, you can use it - the calibre makes no difference - the case "body" itself, does not touch the die.
On the stronger cases it shouldn't make much difference.
IMHO the more support and stabilization of the case even neck sizing can't hurt. That is one reason why I like the neck up/down wildcats so I can use a bushing die for various chamberings in the parent like the 6.8 and 223 variants.
Greg
IMHO the more support and stabilization of the case even neck sizing can't hurt. That is one reason why I like the neck up/down wildcats so I can use a bushing die for various chamberings in the parent like the 6.8 and 223 variants.
Greg
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: GLShooterOn the stronger cases it shouldn't make much difference.
IMHO the more support and stabilization of the case even neck sizing can't hurt. That is one reason why I like the neck up/down wildcats so I can use a bushing die for various chamberings in the parent like the 6.8 and 223 variants.
Greg
It makes NO difference how strong or weak the case is. When a case enters a neck size die, the die shoulder guides the neck in place, but the body does NOT touch the die in any meaningful way.
If you don't believe that, mark a case with "machinists blue", and neck size it - when the case comes out of the die... all the machinists blue will be intact.
That is not an opinion, it is a fact.
There is only one neck sizing die that is an exception, and that is not part of this discussion.
IMHO the more support and stabilization of the case even neck sizing can't hurt. That is one reason why I like the neck up/down wildcats so I can use a bushing die for various chamberings in the parent like the 6.8 and 223 variants.
Greg
It makes NO difference how strong or weak the case is. When a case enters a neck size die, the die shoulder guides the neck in place, but the body does NOT touch the die in any meaningful way.
If you don't believe that, mark a case with "machinists blue", and neck size it - when the case comes out of the die... all the machinists blue will be intact.
That is not an opinion, it is a fact.
There is only one neck sizing die that is an exception, and that is not part of this discussion.
I prefer to mechanically stabilize the case somewhat. I know in necking down initially it helps. Thanks for sharing all your weakth of infornation and you are obviously the only guy on here that ever losds a cartidge with any success. It's a miracle that us ignorant fools can even find a loading bench..
Greg
Greg
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CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: GLShooterI prefer to mechanically stabilize the case somewhat. I know in necking down initially it helps. Thanks for sharing all your weakth of infornation and you are obviously the only guy on here that ever losds a cartidge with any success. It's a miracle that us ignorant fools can even find a loading bench..
Greg
Please explain just how the case "mechanically stabilizes" if it does not touch the die - inquiring minds want to know.
Greg
Please explain just how the case "mechanically stabilizes" if it does not touch the die - inquiring minds want to know.
Maybe alignment on the stage is not perfect and it will help avoid catching the neck edge at times. You know everything so why waste the bandwidth to ask something that you know everything about?
Everyone should do it the Catshooter way on everything. Where would you like the cross delivered?
Greg
Everyone should do it the Catshooter way on everything. Where would you like the cross delivered?
Greg
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: GLShooterMaybe alignment on the stage is not perfect and it will help avoid catching the neck edge at times. You know everything so why waste the bandwidth to ask something that you know everything about?
Everyone should do it the Catshooter way on everything. Where would you like the cross delivered?
Greg
The OP asked a fair and good question... you gave bad and wrong advice - I asked you to explain what you said, and you say... "Maybe alignment on the stage is not perfect and it will help avoid catching the neck edge at times. "
WHAT???
You can't explain it because you have no idea what you are talking about and you got embarrassed - and now you are callin' names and throwing insults - grow up and act like a big boy.
Everyone should do it the Catshooter way on everything. Where would you like the cross delivered?
Greg
The OP asked a fair and good question... you gave bad and wrong advice - I asked you to explain what you said, and you say... "Maybe alignment on the stage is not perfect and it will help avoid catching the neck edge at times. "
WHAT???
You can't explain it because you have no idea what you are talking about and you got embarrassed - and now you are callin' names and throwing insults - grow up and act like a big boy.
I stated an opinion. Don't recall calling any names there other than complementing your vast knowledge base.
Maybe you should lay down and take your own advice and quit trying ro push eveyone around on this board. You frequently retreat to the above stance.
As I stated you aren't the be all to end all on here. To follow your logic we could take a 460 Weatherby neck die and cut it off very short and neck size virtually any case on the market just by changing bushings. That woukd be great. Think if all the dies Redding would never sell. Somehow I think the technical guys at Sinclair would not recommend that approach for making quality ammo. Would it work? In a fashion. Would it be a smart thing to do? Well you'll know the answer so no need to ask that, is there?
Greg
Maybe you should lay down and take your own advice and quit trying ro push eveyone around on this board. You frequently retreat to the above stance.
As I stated you aren't the be all to end all on here. To follow your logic we could take a 460 Weatherby neck die and cut it off very short and neck size virtually any case on the market just by changing bushings. That woukd be great. Think if all the dies Redding would never sell. Somehow I think the technical guys at Sinclair would not recommend that approach for making quality ammo. Would it work? In a fashion. Would it be a smart thing to do? Well you'll know the answer so no need to ask that, is there?
Greg
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: GLShooterI stated an opinion. Don't recall calling any names there other than complementing your vast knowledge base.
Maybe you should lay down and take your own advice and quit trying ro push eveyone around on this board. You frequently retreat to the above stance.
As I stated you aren't the be all to end all on here. To follow your logic we could take a 460 Weatherby neck die and cut it off very short and neck size virtually any case on the market just by changing bushings. That woukd be great. Think if all the dies Redding would never sell. Somehow I think the technical guys at Sinclair would not recommend that approach for making quality ammo. Would it work? In a fashion. Would it be a smart thing to do? Well you'll know the answer so no need to ask that, is there?
Greg
I did not say that, and you know it - grow up!
Maybe you should lay down and take your own advice and quit trying ro push eveyone around on this board. You frequently retreat to the above stance.
As I stated you aren't the be all to end all on here. To follow your logic we could take a 460 Weatherby neck die and cut it off very short and neck size virtually any case on the market just by changing bushings. That woukd be great. Think if all the dies Redding would never sell. Somehow I think the technical guys at Sinclair would not recommend that approach for making quality ammo. Would it work? In a fashion. Would it be a smart thing to do? Well you'll know the answer so no need to ask that, is there?
Greg
I did not say that, and you know it - grow up!
AirBoatDriver
New member
Hey Greg. You're a jerk!
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: AWSHere's and interesting old busing neck sizing die. I've loaded 300 Sav. 30-30, 308 Win and 30-06 with it.
I also use a 204 Ruger Redding FL Bushing die with a few mods. to load 22-204, 6mm-204 and 25-204 wildcats.
That is cool - who made it??
I also use a 204 Ruger Redding FL Bushing die with a few mods. to load 22-204, 6mm-204 and 25-204 wildcats.
That is cool - who made it??
Originally Posted By: AWS
I also use a Ruger Redding FL Bushing die with a few mods. to load 22-204, 6mm-204 and 25-204 wildcats.
How did you open up the throat to handle the 25's?
I want to do a 25X45. I'm getting ready to do one. I already use a 223 for 6X45 and 20PRACTICAL. Mine is just a little too tight to use the right bushings for the 25.
Greg
I also use a Ruger Redding FL Bushing die with a few mods. to load 22-204, 6mm-204 and 25-204 wildcats.
How did you open up the throat to handle the 25's?
I want to do a 25X45. I'm getting ready to do one. I already use a 223 for 6X45 and 20PRACTICAL. Mine is just a little too tight to use the right bushings for the 25.
Greg
i believed that the die did not touch the case body, that is why i sized about 500 22-250's yesterday with my 22-250AI bushing die.
but last week i bought a 17HH neck die to neck size my 17AH brass. some of the cases came out "straight", but some came out with the neck so bent it looked like a funhouse mirror! my thought was that with the delicate brass of the necked down hornet case, that the shoulder was collapsing on one side allowing the neck to be crooked. the RCBS die sized the neck to an acceptable diameter, and i was able to get almost the complete neck sized without the shoulder of the brass ever coming into contact with the die.
how much clearance is there typically in a busing neck die from the die to the case body?
for example, could i use a 17 AH bushing neck die to neck size 17-223 brass? body diameter at the shoulder is about .070 larger on the 223. or, why couldnt i take a 22 hornet bushing die and put a bushing in it for the 17? if that would in fact work, why would you ever buy a bushing die for every caliber with a different length?
in that scenario, would in not be financially sound to buy one bushing die for a 458 winchester and then switch out bushings to load 338, 300, 264, and then also load any cartridge with a body diameter less than the 458 with a case length the same or longer? not trying to be a smart azz, bushing dies are expensive and if i can buy one to use on 6 or 7 calibers, why not?
but last week i bought a 17HH neck die to neck size my 17AH brass. some of the cases came out "straight", but some came out with the neck so bent it looked like a funhouse mirror! my thought was that with the delicate brass of the necked down hornet case, that the shoulder was collapsing on one side allowing the neck to be crooked. the RCBS die sized the neck to an acceptable diameter, and i was able to get almost the complete neck sized without the shoulder of the brass ever coming into contact with the die.
how much clearance is there typically in a busing neck die from the die to the case body?
for example, could i use a 17 AH bushing neck die to neck size 17-223 brass? body diameter at the shoulder is about .070 larger on the 223. or, why couldnt i take a 22 hornet bushing die and put a bushing in it for the 17? if that would in fact work, why would you ever buy a bushing die for every caliber with a different length?
in that scenario, would in not be financially sound to buy one bushing die for a 458 winchester and then switch out bushings to load 338, 300, 264, and then also load any cartridge with a body diameter less than the 458 with a case length the same or longer? not trying to be a smart azz, bushing dies are expensive and if i can buy one to use on 6 or 7 calibers, why not?
I use bushing dies for several chamberings based on the parent body size. All 6.8's variants are done with a 6.8 SPC from 6.8 to 20 . My 223 types are done with a 223 down to 20 and up to 24. My Grendel variants are done in the same die from 6.5 to 20. I have also used a 6 PPC for the same thing before I got the true Grendel die. Not running any 308 body sized neck bushings yet but they shouldn't be any issue if you watch for shoulder height comparability.
Greg
Greg
AWS
Custom Accessory Maker & Retired PM Staff
This is from a 1963 article in Guns Mag. page 65 courtesy of one of the old time reloaders from WA.
jax Dies
Jack Ashurst of Jax Die Co., P.O. Box
6238-G, Riverton Heights Annex, Seattle 88,
Washington, recently submitted a set of hi-power Jax rifle dies in caliber .257 Roberts to us
for tests. Built along the standard lines
and apparently made on a screw machine,
the dies performed all of the sizing and
bullet seating operations in a satisfactory
manner. Dies are not plated but are solid
steel, and locking rings are adjusted with
hex lock nuts. Dies are available for practically
all popular rifle calibers and all
pistol calibers. A three-die set retails for
$11, two-die set sells for $8.95.
Looks like this is the maker of the dies.
jax Dies
Jack Ashurst of Jax Die Co., P.O. Box
6238-G, Riverton Heights Annex, Seattle 88,
Washington, recently submitted a set of hi-power Jax rifle dies in caliber .257 Roberts to us
for tests. Built along the standard lines
and apparently made on a screw machine,
the dies performed all of the sizing and
bullet seating operations in a satisfactory
manner. Dies are not plated but are solid
steel, and locking rings are adjusted with
hex lock nuts. Dies are available for practically
all popular rifle calibers and all
pistol calibers. A three-die set retails for
$11, two-die set sells for $8.95.
Looks like this is the maker of the dies.
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