Can muslims be good Americans?

Tusk1

Tusk1

New member
> CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
>
> This is very interesting! We all need to read it from start
> to finish......... and send it on to anyone who will read it.
>
> Maybe this is why our American Muslims are so quiet and not speaking out about any atrocities.
>
> Can a good Muslim be a good American?
>
>
>
>
>
> Theologically - no. . . . Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon God of Arabia.
>
> Religiously - no. . . . Because no other religion is accepted by His Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256) (Koran).
>
> Scripturally - no. . . . Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of Islam and the Quran.
>
> Geographically - no. . . . Because his allegiance is to Mecca , to which he turns in prayer five times a day.
>
> Socially - no. . . . Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.
>
> Politically - no. . . . Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America , the great Satan.
>
> Domestically - no. . . . Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34 ).
>
> Intellectually - no. . . . Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles, and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.
>
> Philosophically - no. . . . Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.
>
> Spiritually - no. . . . Because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names.
>
> Therefore after much study and deliberation, perhaps we
> should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country.
>
> They obviously cannot be both "good" Muslims and good Americans.
>
> * * * Call it what you wish; it's still the truth.
>
> * * * You had better believe it.
>
> * * * The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future. The religious war is bigger than we know or understand.
>
> And Barack Hussein Obama, a Muslim, wants to be our President?
>
> You HAVE to be kidding?! Wake up America !
>
> Obama even says if he wins the election, he will
> be sworn in on the Quran (Koran)---not the Bible!
>
 
Obama? Hillary? Is that the best the Dems have to offer? It's a sad state. Lets hope the Republicans can do better. I'm worried.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
That just might be the most ignorant post i have ever read on this site or anywhere else. Barack Obama isnt even a muslim, he has been baptized.
 
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That just might be the most ignorant post i have ever read on this site or anywhere else. Barack Obama isnt even a muslim, he has been baptized.



Have you read any of your own posts? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif


The article should be snoped. Obama's middle name is Hussein, spelled just like Saddam's surname. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Quote:
Obama's middle name is Hussein, spelled just like Saddam's surname. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Anthony_Walker
George Walker Bush has the same middle name as the surname of this convicted spy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Walker_Lindh
He has the same middle name as this American traitor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnnie_Walker
He has the same middle name as the surname of this brand of scotch whiskey

Is there a point to this line of reasoning?
 
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Quote:
That just might be the most ignorant post i have ever read on this site or anywhere else. Barack Obama isnt even a muslim, he has been baptized.



Have you read any of your own posts? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif






I'll have to say I'm scratching my head on that one too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
I fail to see the correlation between Obama's religion and baptism. Baptism is a symbolic gesture, it doesn't change a person's mind, and I'm not in anyway saying he's Muslim or Christian, to me it doesn't matter. What matters is how they conduct their lives EVERYDAY. I've seen too many "dyed in the wool", baptized Christians that were horrible human beings Monday thru Saturday to put a whole lot of creedence in the physical act of baptism.

To take any piece of written history as old as the Koran or the Christian Bible VERBATIM, IMO is a mistake. The Christian Bible has been tranlated through upwards of 30 languages over a time period exceeding 2000yrs, to reach the Bible we westerner's know today, how could anyone deny some mistakes/misinterpretations have ocurred in the translation process?

Last rant....does our constitution not guarantee the right to religious freedom? For us (and I'm using "us" loosely and collectively) to scream out one side of our mouth "no gun control" and from the other "no muslims" is hypocritic.

It is my SINCEREST intent not to offend Christians or Muslims with this post (I firmly believe the majority of both religious faiths are good human beings), but to point out...."minds are like parachutes, they only function when open".
 
"Baptism is a religious act of purification by water, usually associated with admission to membership or fullness of membership of Christianity and the remission of original and actual sins."


Obama is a member of a christian church, he has been baptized. In doing so i would say he has accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord and savior.

I dont even like Obama, i think he has socialist ideals. But the fact is the original post in WRONG.
 
Well, it happens that there actually are a lot of muslims who are, in fact, good Americans, Make of it what you will.

As for Obama, if he wins the nomination it's entirely possible that his current church membership may just bite him in the [beeep]. It is entirely racist, focused on all things African, not American & there's a very real possibility that the general electorate may well have real problems with it.
 
Quote:
I fail to see the correlation between Obama's religion and baptism. Baptism is a symbolic gesture, it doesn't change a person's mind, and I'm not in anyway saying he's Muslim or Christian, to me it doesn't matter. What matters is how they conduct their lives EVERYDAY. I've seen too many "dyed in the wool", baptized Christians that were horrible human beings Monday thru Saturday to put a whole lot of creedence in the physical act of baptism.

To take any piece of written history as old as the Koran or the Christian Bible VERBATIM, IMO is a mistake. The Christian Bible has been tranlated through upwards of 30 languages over a time period exceeding 2000yrs, to reach the Bible we westerner's know today, how could anyone deny some mistakes/misinterpretations have ocurred in the translation process?

Last rant....does our constitution not guarantee the right to religious freedom? For us (and I'm using "us" loosely and collectively) to scream out one side of our mouth "no gun control" and from the other "no muslims" is hypocritic.

It is my SINCEREST intent not to offend Christians or Muslims with this post (I firmly believe the majority of both religious faiths are good human beings), but to point out...."minds are like parachutes, they only function when open".



He says he's a Christian, and so does his church. Yet his minister named Louis Farrakhan "Man of the year"?...the Church's favorite news magazine did a very favorable write up on him as well, calling him an "Icon"...Can't help but raise my eyebrows on that one...

I've seen many "Christians" behave the way that you describe. Many of them would say I'm not a Christian because of weaknesses that I have, and sometimes are less successful than other times, when it comes to resisting them. I haven't gone to church since I left my parent's house 23 years ago, except to watch certain Pastors that I trust on the TV or listen on radio, nor have I been baptized...yet. God said we should do both, and some day I will, but not when a church leader tells me I must be baptized and go to church to be saved. Baptism IS a symbolic gesture, one that proclaims to the world that you are a believer and one of God's children. This post I'm tapping out openly and unabashedly informs more people in this world that I'm a believer than any public baptism ever could. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that being baptized is not a very important thing. God said we should do it,that makes it important,but baptism by itself won't save anybody. Neither will being a good moral person in your daily life. Plenty of Athiests, don't steal, lie, cheat, murder, rape...they live good moral lives according to society's rules...that and $2.00 will get them a cup of coffee at Dunkin'Donuts in God's eyes, but it won't get them into His Kingdom. Neither will just "believing in God". Jesus said "the ONLY way to the Father and His Kingdom is by ME"

God said the ONLY thing that saves a soul is acceptance of Christ's sacrifice as the one and only possible payment for their sin-debt to God. He said nothing we can do or say can add to that, and likewise, nothing can separate us from Him once we are His, including our own sin. I remember when I asked Christ into my heart and was saved at the tender age of 8 yrs, after one of my grandfathers had passed away. After many years of outright rebellion as a young adult, I re-acknowledged to the Lord my need for Christ's sacrifice and God's forgiveness in the last decade. Notice I said "re-acknowledged", not "got saved again".

I believe that the only thing that can revoke my salvation is telling God that "hey, I've decided you're wrong, I don't need you, so get out of my life" and I'm sure He would. God knows my heart, man knows what he see's outwardly. I try to behave like God want's me to, but just like my hound dog, I'm just not perfect and I have my weaknesses that sometimes get the better of me, no matter how bad I want to obey. Just like my hound dog, I know when I've been a bad dog, am sorry for disobeying my master, and come slinking back, asking that He forgives me for it...again....and again...and again...and He does. My wife calls me "the dog hollerer", but he always ends up getting his head patted and a new pig's ear after the admonishment is over.

As far as the many years of translation by man tainting the Bible...God's word is just that..HIS word. He is Almighty God and as such, is more than capable of making sure that His word says what He want's it to, no matter how many times it's been translated, no matter by how many people, no matter into how many different languages. I guess it takes a little faith to believe that...I've got enough that I do. Some "churches" or "leaders" or "religions" add to and take away from the Bible as they see fit. If you're willing to be shown, God will give a believer the discernment to see that and recognize it. Non-believers never would and can't...the whole thing is just foolishness in their minds. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Last rant: Screaming about no gun control is about God-given constitutional rights...questioning whether a Muslim can be a good American is not hypocrisy when the people in question technically don't believe in the right to freedom of religion(nor the rest of the constitution)in the first place...unless they're in a land that guarantees their own...then it's an ok thing. Give them the chance, and they'll take that away happily, along with all the other constutional rights. Their idea of constitutional is religious legalism at it's best and outright persecution to the point of death at it's worst. Their idea of contitutional is just that...theirs, not ours. Last time I checked, this was still our country, not theirs.

I do believe the Muslims are free to worship as they see fit in this country, just as long as they don't impede my own beliefs or others. Can they be "good americans"?... according to their god and his book, they cannot. That is something that only a Muslim can ask his own conscience, and then wonder if he lives in the right country or not, and whether he worships the right God or not.

Sincerely, no offense intended to anyone on this end either, just trying to pop a few rip-cords myself. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Quote:
> CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
>
> This is very interesting! We all need to read it from start
> to finish......... and send it on to anyone who will read it.
>
> Maybe this is why our American Muslims are so quiet and not speaking out about any atrocities.
>
> Can a good Muslim be a good American?
>
>
>
>
>
> Theologically - no. . . . Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon God of Arabia.
>
> Religiously - no. . . . Because no other religion is accepted by His Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256) (Koran).
>
> Scripturally - no. . . . Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of Islam and the Quran.
>
> Geographically - no. . . . Because his allegiance is to Mecca , to which he turns in prayer five times a day.
>
> Socially - no. . . . Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.
>
> Politically - no. . . . Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America , the great Satan.
>
> Domestically - no. . . . Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34 ).
>
> Intellectually - no. . . . Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles, and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.
>
> Philosophically - no. . . . Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.
>
> Spiritually - no. . . . Because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names.
>
> Therefore after much study and deliberation, perhaps we
> should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country.
>
> They obviously cannot be both "good" Muslims and good Americans.
>
> * * * Call it what you wish; it's still the truth.
>
> * * * You had better believe it.
>
> * * * The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future. The religious war is bigger than we know or understand.
>
> And Barack Hussein Obama, a Muslim, wants to be our President?
>
> You HAVE to be kidding?! Wake up America !
>
> Obama even says if he wins the election, he will
> be sworn in on the Quran (Koran)---not the Bible!
>


"Birds of a feather will flock together!" Not my quote. That come from a higher-up.
 
"lets round up all them there muuslims,and kills'em all cause aints no ways they can be good peoples" - just your average a$$ backward american citizen.
 
Quote:
"lets round up all them there muuslims,and kills'em all cause aints no ways they can be good peoples" - just your average a$$ backward american citizen.


Umm, I think you had best get your money back you've wasted on your edgimacation. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
You can use all of us referances. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
"Can muslims be good Americans?" I don't see why not, but what's a good American?

Seriously, I'm not trying to be argumentative, but what really constitutes a good American? One who votes Republican, or Democrat? One who buys the propaganda that either of those parties puts out and acts accordingly?

One who attends a church, as opposed to a temple or a mosque?

Does a good American have to be Christian?

I do not attend church, nor any other house of worship, nor am I a Christian now, although I do believe there is much wisdom in the teachings of Christ. I do believe in God, but not in an interventionist god; I am a deist.

I support the Constitution wholeheartedly and look at any tinkering with it or willful misinterpretation of it as an act of treason, which automatically precludes me from being a Republican or Democrat.

I believe in the sanctity of the individual and his rights above any group. As Rand said, the indvidual is the smallest minority in the world, and the most easily violated, and therefore the one in most need of protection from force or fraud, which is all a government should legally or morally do. With the pressure group warfare we have today--a symptom of too many on the public teat, from the lowest welfare mother to the highest corporation seeking government favors and subsidies--the individual is a forgotten entity.

Getting back to the original question, yes, I believe Muslims can be good Americans, but only if they put first the sanctity of the individual and all that goes with it (support for those who deserve it by upholding the Constitution in its historical context--not difficult to do, they are a VERY small group) before ANY political or religious dogma. And that goes for the rest of the citizens of this country too.
DAL
 
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