Continuation of NASA's Do Animals Think?

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Jay Nistetter

Jay Nistetter

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Let's talk about coyotes here and apply NASA's question to coyotes because I'm not a chicken kind of guy.

Well guys. Here’s my take on smart coyote. They’re just a dog. That’s all. I once had a dog that seemed to know what I wanted and when I wanted and consequently was a constant source of amazement, BUT for 15 years it never learned to wait for me to open the screen door AFTER I opened the sliding glass door. I became an expert at replacing screens.

Too much credit is given to a coyote’s thinking abilities. Case in point. Many of you think that a coyote is call shy because it learned somewhere along the line that it was going to get shot at. Many think that the coyote becomes educated and this makes me roll my eyes every time I hear those comments. The coyote doesn’t know what a gun is and most likely didn’t see the shooter or caller before the big boom directed at him.

Too many use the education excuse for the coyote that hangs up and doesn’t come on in to the caller. So if a coyote hangs up at 200 yards, is he educated? Is one that hangs at 100 yards less educated? How about 50, 40, 20 yards? It has nothing to do with education and everything to do with hierarchy.

Most of you have seen a littler of puppies and every litter has dominant, aggressive dogs as well as timid and passive dogs. Coyote litters are no different. The dominant ones eat first while the passive ones eat last. It didn’t learn to eat last. It was conditioned to eat last.

Many of the aggressive coyotes get shot at and eventually shot period. The less aggressive coyotes tend to stop short of their intended prey because they were conditioned to watch and wait waaay back in the litter days. That doesn’t make them smart by any means. The aggressive ones have done been shot, but the “smart” ones don’t know it. Think about it.

Everyone looks forward to the start of calling season because all the dumb ol uneducated pups are out and boy do they come running in. It’s a fun time of year, but it has been my experience that I call in just as many if not more adult coyotes than pups. Why? Because they are just dogs and they forget just like people do stuff without thinking.

Coyote calling is great in the early fall then it seems to calm down a bit. It picks back up in January and tapers off a bit in mid February. It picks back up in March-April. Why.
Lots of aggressive dogs in fall. The unlucky ones get shot or run over. First of year dogs have their hormones kicking in and become more aggressive. March-April dogs become more aggressive because they need to, in order to feed the litter.

It’s been said that I call down-wind a lot. There are two reasons why I call down-wind... sometimes. First and foremost, my ONLY thing I have going for me is my sight. I can’t hear coyotes coming until it’s too late. I certainly can’t smell them, so my best ally it how well and how much real estate I can see. the wind direction has never been the most important factor for me. I call where I can see. Over the last couple years, I have been using a camera and I need even more open spaces in order to video.

Second reason... and this ties in to the educated coyote theories out there for reasons you might have figured out by now. The hard chargers are fun and exciting to be sure, but the less aggressive dogs, not the dominant litter mates, tend to circle down-wind to get a second opinion (their nose). You’ll have hard-chargers come in the back door. We’ve all had it happen and we all talk about how you heard it and swung around just in time to have dirt kicked on you. The timid ones coming in from the back door are no different from the ones that hang up from the upwind side in this scenario. They stop where their comfort zone tells tem to.

So if you’re well hidden and have a good line of sight and do not call anything in, slowly stand to look left, right and then turn around to look behind you and you may see those “smart” dogs hung up (unless you'd rather make a 20 yard circle around your calling location to scare up bobcats you didn't know were there.

If you do have one hung up, what do you do? Sometimes you can wait them out, but the best thing to do is change your call and call lightly and timidly. Work the coyote into shooting position for your partner. If you’re lucky, the coyote will slowly angle in towards you for a closer shot. Just because the coyote mat turn and way a few yards back doesn’t mean it’s leaving. You may have to start all over and work him back in towards you. This is where a hand call beats electronics hands-down every time.

I’m tired of typing. Typing this is reminiscent of the old Shade Tree days.

NASA. Whwn you critique my video, you may actually witness exactly what I am talking about. Timely Topic.
 
Jay,
Well spoken Sir. If you listen carefully you should be able to hear the sound of applause! I agree heartily with 98% of what you said. Only the part about hand calls beating electronics "hands down" might be debated. I can't blow one to save my life so you can understand my bias. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Dogleg
 
Jay,

That's certainly a very good theory and you explained it in your usual writer/hunter-like way. I have always enjoyed reading your thoughts on coyote behavior and have to say this one is no different! I agree that the ones that "hang" can be brought in by softly starting over and giving the impression the quarry is there for the taking. When I've called louder and more frantically the less agressive coyotes seem to shy even farther or head for the downwind side to get that "not quite sure" second look and maybe a smell for safety sake. They just don't want to get their butts kicked! I believe you're correct, it all started in the litter and is inate behavior. Nikonut /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
I have a great deal of respect for Jay Nistetter, and consider him to be my friend. I agree with most of his theories regarding coyote behaviour, but not all of them. I have seen too much evidence that tells me that coyotes do in fact have the ability to learn from bad experiences. The ability to "learn" is one of the reasons that coyotes continue to thrive even though they have been pursued by every means that man has been able to contrive.
 
Jay...

Your right about a coyote being just a K9. However, K9's do have the potential to learn and become educated. Just like in humans there are ones that are smarter than others. Your example of your dog doing what and when you wanted is an exmaple of this. But just because your dog ran into your screen door for several years doesnt make in dumb. Maybe there was some underlying conditions with the dog you didnt know of?? Possibly it's vision wasnt that great or it couldnt see the screen..who knows..You say that too much credit is given to coyotes for their thinking abilities. Well what happens to a coyote when you call it in and it either smells or busts you moving or both...it has just learned that sound or smell means danger or something that is not normally found in its environment. This is when the yote becomes call shy. Not that it is less aggressive than its brothers or sisters. It has LEARNED and became EDUCATED(go ahead and roll your eyes if it makes you feel better). Maybe not to the extent humans do but any kind or form of learned behavior is a kind of education. Think about it.

I just got your video by the way. Cant wait to see it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

NY Yote
 
As I pointed out earlier, there is no "magical" quality associated with learning. All living organisms can learn. Chickens can learn, even a nightcrawler can learn. Even a house plant can be conditioned to respond a certain way. Has anyone ever "trained" a rosebush to grow in a certain shape on a trellis?

Learning is simply the acquisition of information. However, intelligence is measured by how well that organism utilizes the perceived information. I don't think anyone on this board disputes how well most coyotes utilize their data input. Well, maybe there is ONE individual that thinks they are braindead, LOL! :rolleyes:
 
Tom, I won't go there. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif But, I will submit a ? for Jay or anyone else that is prompted by his comments above, and is a continuation of one of the valuable points he made in his DVD (when you see a responding coyote looking over his back trail, indicating the presence of another coyote).

Jay, would it be reasonable to deduce that the relative frequency of hang ups, especially in the early part of the season, could be used as an indicator of relative coyote densities in that area? What I'm asking you is this... If an area has relatively low numbers of coyotes, territorial disputes are fewer and the hierarchy is less defined. The coyotes - what few there are - are simply more tolerant of one another becasue they can be and not get screwed over.

If this is so, then the opposite might be true: In areas of relatively high density, the heirarchy is more evident, as is the occurrence of disputes and confrontations serving to maintain proper spatial distribution within the pop'n.

Assuming these scenarios to be true, could an early season caller (early on before coyotes may get "educated" by bad shots and poor callers) conclude in seeing an excessive number of long range hang ups that these coyotes are apprehensive to close the deal becaue of a greater density of coyotes, ergo, deduce that he's sitting in a potential honey hole? In other words, and there's getting to be way too many of them here already, can I use the number of hangups in a given area as an index for estimating relative coyote densities without actually having to see the coyotes themselves?

There, that'll get ya thinkin' for a while.
 
Certainly a coyote that hangs up may be waiting for another one, but it doesn’t take long to figure it out. You can see this in my video. In the video also, we didn’t know that a coyote was intruding into another’s territory until the show was all over.

You also saw one hang up and never did express any desire to come in close, but that was when the caller’s responsibility is to work the coyote into shooting position.

Lance, I never gave much thought in associating coyotes that hang up to the numbers of coyotes in any given area. I do feel that the hierarchy is pretty much always defined.

The high density areas are usually spots you discover that are boundary areas and you may call sets of coyotes from different directions. Good indicators are lots of dropping of varying age. This indicates what I believe are corner boundaries and at some time during the day, some coyote will be by to mark the spot. If a coyote vacates an area (whether shot or not), then the neighbor will happen by and eventually discover that there may be some new habitat available.

I never discovered any excess of coyotes. If you see hang-ups like your last paragraph ponders, it could be that magic boundary the hung-up coyote does not want to cross. I’d automatically back off the stand and relocate closer to the hung-up coyotes territory later on if I couldn’t coax him in for a shot. That hung-up coyote could actually mean that he/she just isn’t interested or is just watching so he can watch that SOB neighbor coyote get shot. LOL

Honey Holes: Could be corner boundary areas, but a Honey Hole to me is a good habitat spot. If you take a coyote out of a good habitat spot it takes about a week for another to upgrade his homestead and move. This relates back to what I was saying about vacating an area.

There seems to be some understanding among coyotes during fawning seasons because they will gather to partake of the banquet. Gerry Blair has some real good thoughts on this in one of his books. And there are always migrating and nomadic coyotes out there too. How do you determine which are which? Beats the hell outta me.

Like always, these are only the observations from a brain-dead coyote hunter who’s been doing it for 35 years. It ain’t rocket science, it’s coyote science and I have yet to meet anyone who could answer any question without dispute.

what question did I miss? Like one old boy told me once.. "I'll tell you everything I know and gladly make up the rest."
 
Quote, "If an area has relatively low numbers of coyotes, territorial disputes are fewer and the hierarchy is less defined."

Not exactly. Hierarchy, per se, is mostly predominant within a family or interacting territorial group. The numbers involved do not affect the hierarchy.

Hierarchy disputes are rare, as the ranking and pecking order is established early and quickly. Pups learn very early who's boss. A dominant male or female has the backing and support of its group when encountering transients.

Territorial disputes can be ongoing because they are affected by the abundance, or, lack of food. In areas of unlimited food source, there is very little disputing. Where food is scarce, territorial disputes are vicious, and sometimes deadly.

So in answer to the question, "Can I use the number of hangups in a given area as an index for estimating relative coyote densities without actually having to see the coyotes themselves?", the answer is no.

The only viable method of estimating coyote population densities, currently used by the Dept. of Interior, is aerial counting. This isn't but 70% accurate, but it's the best anybody has been able to come up with.
 
I understand this topic is pertaining to coyotes but I can't help myself any longer. I've been coyote hunting for about 5 years now, not too long in my opinion. I've learned a lot and learn much more every time I go out with a new seasoned predator caller. I go off the wall with my great theories of coyotes and their abilities since my knowledge is so limited and much less than many others in here.

My one point, that I would like to make is what I have noticed in whitetailed deer. I've hunted whitetails my whole life and have become sharp on trophy whitetails. From the hunting aspect of whitetails I would've never accomplished the level of ability I have today so I started reading and researching. I spent a lot of time hunting with very productive and sucessful hunters and that helped a ton. The big change in my hunting career was when my family started a business raising whitetailed deer. The hands on, day to day interaction with whitetails has changed my life and hunting completely!

As a hunter you have an overwhelming respect and often overexagerrated opinion of the animals your chasing. My experiences with whitetails have taught me that their natural instincts and talens are JUST AS STRONG as I'd assumed them to be from my years of hunting. However, other assumptions I had proved to be false altogether. One of them being the art of calling or rattling in bucks. This is where predator hunting becomes involved even remotely in my theory. When hunting deer one usually finds their habits and exploits them to create a shot, predator hunters generally find good locations and attempt to call them in.

Whitetails use their higherarchy and social stature in their decision to respond to a call, they don't just act instinctively no matter how bad they'd like to breed a doe or pick a fight. The only exception to this situation that I've found would be a fawn bleat completely freaking a doe out. I have noticed that the distressed pup calls do similar things to coyotes so I think maternal instincts run deep regaurdless of the higherarchy in play.

I think the obvious difference in calling predators versus whitetails is that you are calling a whitetail with his sex drive and a predator often with his stomach. The dominance and territorial behavior in coyotes surely runs over into their response to a distressed call HOWEVER whitetail bucks will eat with their worst enemy when the corn hits the ground. Are predators that much harder up for food that they must be so dominant over food sources?

I don't see this type of continued "dominance complex" in other animals like deer and turkey and I've studied them throroughly. Could it be that these dogs that hang up aren't necessarily so educated about the hunting stratagies of furhunters but are rather less hungry or simply picking up something that doesn't seem quite right. Lay a cheeseburger on a public sidewalk and see the different responses you get from people, there must a personality in coyotes that would make them react differently without the obvious factors of hunger and dominance.

Sorry for the long post, just couldn't hold it back any more. I know I sure put a lot of old myths to rest when I first got hands on experience with my quarry of choice... perhaps we need someone who has studied the animals first hand to tell us just how much of this "education" we've dreamt up and how much is real natural instinct keeping us from killing a lot of critters.
 
NASA your last post was very good and dead-on.

Jay and I are good friends and hunt together and disagree about most things coyote. Especially the intelligence and learning abilities of coyotes. It's entertaining. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
quote: "I once had a dog that seemed to know what I wanted and when I wanted and consequently was a constant source of amazement, BUT for 15 years it never learned to wait for me to open the screen door AFTER I opened the sliding glass door. I became an expert at replacing screens."
I have a 19 year old son that has exited 2 screen doors and a sliding glass patio door without opening them, yet I honestly believe he is occasionally able to "structure logic".

quote: "The coyote doesn’t know what a gun is and most likely didn’t see the shooter or caller before the big boom directed at him."
Driving from Denver to Cheyenne we saw two coyotes on the prairie well over a half mile away. When we stopped the truck to glass them, they swapped ends and streaked out of sight. They obviously new that humans and trucks meant death from afar with a big boom.
quote:"Too many use the education excuse for the coyote that hangs up and doesn’t come on in to the caller."
And the education excuse just may apply. Tyler and I call these coyotes within a couple of miles of the house on a weekly basis, and they are TOUGH critics of the sounds and presentations we use. Very low response rate around here now.
No more quotes.
We are selling Phoebe's puppies and Debbie interviews all prospects who want one of the babies. I am hearing lots of good stories about the genius dogs some have raised. I really don't think they are making them up. Many people are just as convinced dogs are capable of obsevational learning and even rudimentary problem solving as many of you are convinced they are just dogs or even brain-dead.
Many American Indian tribes lived in close proximity with the coyote and new and understood it intimately and they were convinced that it was special among animals. Even naming it Father and Creator as well as God's Dog. Must be a story in there somewhere.
I have fond memories of a collie I owned 40 years ago in Louisiana. He would open the kitchen cabinet when he was hungry, take out a box of dry dog food and pour it into his bowl. He kinda made a mess and never put the box back but I thought it was clever. My father-in-law raised toy Manchesters and my collie would grasp the limbs of a plum tree in the back yard and pull it down and hold it so the little dogs could eat the plums. He never saw anyone do that. People who claim that dogs cannot reason on any level, can only react to stimuli have either never seen a dog or coyote initiate action or refuse to acknowledge what they do see. What do you believe my dog is reacting to when he initiates play by going to the toy box, digging out a rope and brings it to me for a game of tug-of-war? I don't know what level, relative to huiman intelligence, a dog's brain operates at. I do know they are not brain-dead. Coyotes too, only more. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Great points by all. I agree with a lot of what Jay said. The problem with this subject is that when deciding whether a coyote or dog can think we keep comparing it to a human. I think it's obvious that no real comparison can be made. You can wait a million more years and I doubt that coyotes will evolve to the point where they are building rockets, planes and cars. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

But the question is, can a coyote or dog think? Again, depends on how you define thinking. Are the coyotes whipping out their Texas Instruments calculator and calculating their odds of survival when they consider responding to some distress sounds? No. They don't think the same way humans do. No comparison.

One of the definitions of "think" is: To recall or remember This I believe they can do even if it is a simple form of it. When humans think it is merely accessing stored information although on a much grander scale. Do they formulate thought? Do they have the power of reason? Again certainly not anything close to the way a human does it but I think they can associate a negative experience with a smell or sound and recall that it is something they should avoid. I agree with Jay that they do forget over time and that explains the yearly crop of "uneducated" coyotes. As noted, it isn't just pups that respond every season.

One of the definitions of intelligence is: the capacity to learn This I also believe they can do in a limited capacity not to be compared to how a human can learn.

I don't have problems with coyotes hanging up normally. They usually either come or they don't. Don't know if we have different coyotes here or what but I can darn sure tell the difference from an area that has been called a lot and one that has not. In the areas I know that have had lots of hunting pressure the coyotes have "learned" to not repond to something (sounds, smells) they deem negative or a threat or a waste of time to approach.

In contrast I go to an area that has had little pressure or none and the coyotes respond much more readily and obviously have not "learned" to associate danger or anything negative with the sounds they are hearing. Call it conditioning if you want, I call it learning.

When I started as an electrician at the lumber mill I work at now, I was the "dumb coyote" electrician. I'd get a call on my radio to respond to a breakdown. I'd get there and not have much of a clue where to start troubleshooting this huge complex system of photoeyes,lasers, limit switches, interlocking motor starters...etc. Heck, I could barely find the area where the breakdown was. As time went on and I was exposed to these situations over and over I became conditioned to look for certain things and respond a certain way. I learned. Similar to how a coyote remembers where the water holes are, the den site, and not to come within shooting distance of roads. Yes their brain is much smaller but it is there for something. It stores a certain amount of info. Nothing to be compared with the capacity of a human of course. No complex thinking going on or major weighing of consequences but some limited accessing of saved info when needed. Just my opinion.

As far as the dog and the screen door comparison, heck Jay, my brother has walked through mine twice! My roommate at school has done it once too as well as myself attempting it. Either they (and myself) are as dumb as a dog or you had a much more human (intelligent) dog than you thought. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Having said all that, I don't credit coyotes with any special powers and a lot of the time it is surprising at how unintelligent they can appear. More often than I am impressed by any display of perceived intelligence. Most of the time they are "just a dog". But some display a certain craftiness that is to be admired. Most of the humans we are used to seeing seem pretty smart compared to a dog but in other parts of the world there are some cultures still wiping their butts with their hand. Heck, even right here in our "advanced society" there are severe displays of a lack of intelligence. Wasn't that long ago we were pretty simple creatures ourselves really. Yes we are more than monkeys with cars and guns but if you took the average human and dropped him off in the middle of say the Alaska interior without a gun, food and transportation, I bet most wouldn't last as long as a coyote would. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

As I said before the debate has raged forever and will likely continue. What I said and has been said by others is merely opinions. I don't think there is a way to scientifically prove it either way. Just my opinion though. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Good hunting
 
Good thoughts Rich and Curt.

All logical and well presented. I cannot disput either of you. Most of the debates come from (like Curt said) a matter of how you personally define the wurds.

Curt.. I too have passed through a screen door. I went out to fetch hamburgers off the grill and the wife closed the screen door when she saw it open, not knowing I was about to re-enter with a plate of 12 hamburgers. Our guests were pleasantly amused.

I have somewhat of a Jeckel-Hyde lifestyle. I frequent the theater, wine and cheese outings, brewmaster parties (YUCK!) and basically intermingle with intellectual, learn-ed types on occassion. I always make it a point to wear my alligator or ostrich boots at these affairs. In every case, these free-thinkers attribute all wildlife as thinking lifeform needless persued and harrassed by Hillbillies with guns (except one lady who drinks too much and wants all coyotes killed after she saw one take off with her cat).

The most recent FUNNY was that my wife mentioned that I just produced a movie. Attitudes changed. One of the actor-types asked if there might be any parts opening up in the future and I told them they would need to study the Hillbilly mentality in order to fit the part and maybe later on we'd do lunch. My wife openly slugged me in front of everyone.

Back to the Coyotes. I tend to keep things simple. If it gets too taxing on the old brain, I enjoy it less. Never once have I called in a coyote and wondered if he came in because it was Tuesday and normally hunters don't come out their way mid-week.
 
Haha, Jay. I asked that question knowing that would be your answer, and I agree with you. I just wanted to open up another tangent. Fact is, if that coyote holds uop out there, it's probably one of two things: too many other coyotes nearby, or too many hunters. LOL

NASA- I know about the interpack hierarchy. My thoughts, albeit unclear, were more about the intrapack dynamic, or the social dynamic that exists between pack-assigned dogs and nomadic individuals. No biggy. The only variation I could see in extrapolating what you said here to my country is to factor in that our habitat is fragmented severely, often connected by corridors that consist of nothing but a fencerow separating two wheatfields where four square miles of real estate may only offer three-five acres of habitat tall enough to hide a coyote.

Rich, Your dog does that? My kids do that.

Like you said,

"He would open the kitchen cabinet when he was hungry, take out a box of (cereal) and pour it into his bowl. He kinda made a mess and never put the box back but I thought it was clever."

Yup, that applies to Dalian, alright. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Damn you guys are smart and talk purdy too. I should keep my mouth shut so ya'll don't see how dumb I realy a'm, but, like I said I'm dumb and haven't learned to keep my mouth shut. I think there are to many variables involved to correctly determine with any certainty why a cetain coyote hung up, or charged in on that particular stand on that particular day. I also believe they can learn and think to a certain degree. My dog (Ginger) is very intelegent and has many time shown me her ability to learn. I have also seen plenty of dogs that were dumb as rocks. I believe coyotes are no different. If they were brain dead we would have already killed them all, and if they were too smart we wouldn't kill any. I think they are just about right in the smart department, and don't spend a lot of time thinking about it. They are what they are, a coyote.
 
I don't have much to add that hasn't already been said, so I'll start with saying that I'm of the opinion that coyotes have the ability to learn and remember enough to survive and thrive. Their ability to adapt also surpases any other North American animal considering the open season in most places.

I do however, like the theory of the more passive coyotes being the last to be shot. That may explain a lot of hang ups, especially with the pups I've seen recently that like to watch from the 150 to 200 yard range. I also believe each coyote has it's own individual personality. Not to the extent or range of humans, but none the less, enough to tweak a prediction in an equal set of circumstances. This could also play into the agressive- passive coyote theory. The more agressive coyote isn't necessarily the most physically dominant, in most cases yes, and maybe later down the road when he gets his ass handed to him by a bigger, older coyote, yes again. I don't think a personality changes though, just alteres in some cases.

This is just a theory. I hate to get technical about coyotes, but it seems like I see something different every time I call one in. With all the variables involved nothing can be proven or disproven.

As far as screen doors, I stay as far away as I can slowly making a huge circle, keeping an eye on it, untill I can slip in the back door. Leaving the house is a whole different story. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Brad
 
Brad, I believe your theory on personality has a lot of merit. Anyone who has raised, and kept a litter of pups will be aware of this. Coyotes are no different.

My 6 pups were easy to tell apart simply by their "personality". And I could rank them numerically that way. The most forward, inquisitive, playful, assertive, and queen of the dinner bowl would be No. 1. Number 6 was shy, reclusive, skittish, submissive, and last to feed.

Number 4 was the dope-dope. He had to be a brick shy of a full load. He was the one who always ran into the screen. Most of the others learned to sit and catch food I tossed to them. Not this one. He never figured out the trick. But he knew to hang around during the training sessions. He'd wait for me to toss him a strip of beefheart, watch it hit the ground, then scarf it up.

So, I think it would be safe to assume that some coyotes have a better capacity to absorb information, and then use that information to their best advantage, than some of their average counterparts.
 
JAY ,I TOTALLY AGREE WITH WHAT YOU HAVE SAID HERE.I HAVE ALWAYS HUNTED WITH THE WIND TO MY BACK {IF IT WAS BLOWING}WHERE I COULD SEE WAY DOWN WIND! I WATCHED A DOMINATE MALE COME IN TO A HOWLER ONCE MARKING EVERYTHING HE WALKED PAST!I SWITCHED TO A DISTRESS CALL HE CAME TO A CERTAIN POINT AND WALKED UNAFRAID PARALELL TO ME,MARKING EVERYTHING HE PASSED.I GUESS IT WAS BECAUSE THIS WAS THE EDGE OF HIS BOUNDRY.AT THE SAME TIME ANOTHER YOTE CAME IN ABOUT 200 YARDS DOWN WIND OF HIM,AS SOON AS IT SMELT HIM .IT DUCKED IT'S TAIL AND PACED BACK AND FORTH!NEITHER EVER CAME ON IN.I TRIED EVERY CALL IN MY PACK! THE SAME THING HAPPENED AGAIN IN THE SAME SPOT ABOUT A WEEK LATER.MALE CAME IN AND HUNG UP IN THE SAME SPOT,THE OTHER ONE TOO.ONLY THIS TIME I WAS CLOSE ENOUGH TO THE LINE TO TAKE BOTH!
 
Jay, I agree on somethings for sure, but some im not so sure about.

One thing, Do they think? Well I think they haft to, in order to survive. And I also think they can learn to.

If a coyote cant think then how do they know when they get your scent that something is wrong? They had to learn some were along the line that human scent means danger and not to stick around. The thing is they were tought this from pups.

If you see a coyote in a field around here driving down the road, they will stay right there as long as you dont stop the truck. If you stop the truck there gone, they turn inside out to get away. Why? Because every farmer that drives by stops and takes a pop shot at them! They have learned that if that truck stops they are going to get shot at.

How many times have you howled up a coyote and only to have them hold up just out of gun range? Why? Maybe your just out of his teritory or he thinks your a more dominant coyote. So they stop and think.....This is the edge of my teritory, if I go over there im going to get an ass kicken! If it is a more dominat coyote Im still going to get my butt kicked. How does that coyote know these things? They learn them.

Just like a dog learns to stay in the yard. If he does out of the yard he gets his butt whipped by the master. But....How many of us have had a dog that know matter how many times it gets it butt kicked it still wont stay in the yard? And what happens is it gets run over by a car or something bad happens to it. Just like some coyotes, they dont stay in the yard, no matter how many butt wippens they get. And the same for them, exept they get shot when the respond to the wrong howl.

I dont think coyotes can think like humans but they do think and learn from there mistakes. They haft to in order to suvive. I hunt to much goverment land that gets hunted alot. And have seen to many things that could only come from coyotes that learn over time. They get shot at enough, and they dont respond. Just my 02 on this, but Its just my thoughts not science, and I could be wrong.

It makes for good thought and great topic to debate....Good thinking Jay and NASA. I enjoy reading this stuff.

Kee
 
I dunno guys.
Maybe the dictionaries I learned from are different from yours.

I was under the impression that the word think entailed, implied and included words and phrases like… intend, plan, to have an opinion, regard, consider, reflect, ponder, to devise, to plan, to subject to the process of logical thought, meditate, to have a view or opinion and more.

Sure, I do not disagree that a coyote might be able to form a mental picture that is a result of learned behavior.

Remember the “STOVE HOT! DON’T TOUCH!

Everyone ends up touching the hot stove. All of a sudden, we have a learned behavior, BUT we also learn that the stove can be cold too.

The coyote doesn’t know this and will thus avoid the stove altogether instead of reasoning that if he spit on the stove, he could determine if it were really hot or not.

This explains that in certain areas, coyotes avoid trucks altogether. The truck, like the stove, presents a higher degree of aggression that the coyote doesn’t want to contend with no matter how aggressive or passive the coyote may or may not be.
 
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