Correct Me If I Am Wrong

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UncleDoc

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I have been shooting .308 Winchester rifles for a while now but grew up with an old Springfield in the .30-06 chambering. Much has been written about the .308 with bullets up to about 160g and the .30-06 with bullets heavier than 160g. Seems the difference in velocity is around 150 FPS in favor of the .30-06 for 180g and 200g bullets. Isn't that about the difference in a 24" barrel and a 22" barrel (usually on sporter model rifles)? Just thinking out loud here.
 
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Originally Posted By: UncleDocI have been shooting .308 Winchester rifles for a while now but grew up with an old Springfield in the .30-06 chambering. Much has been written about the .308 with bullets up to about 160g and the .30-06 with bullets heavier than 160g. Seems the difference in velocity is around 150 FPS in favor of the .30-06 for 180g and 200g bullets. Isn't that about the difference in a 24" barrel and a 22" barrel (usually on sporter model rifles)? Just thinking out loud here.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make, but the 308 and 30-06 will loose about 60 to 70 fps in a 2" piece of barrel.

 
The comparison I was trying to make is how much difference in velocity would one expect to see in a .308 with a slightly longer tube. I probably did not articulate that very well. I am almost certain that the difference is slight. I don't see such a significant difference that one would pick one over the other based solely on ballistics.
 
Originally Posted By: UncleDocThe comparison I was trying to make is how much difference in velocity would one expect to see in a .308 with a slightly longer tube. I probably did not articulate that very well. I am almost certain that the difference is slight. I don't see such a significant difference that one would pick one over the other based solely on ballistics.

There is a substantial difference in the velocity/energy between the two cartridges - the 30-06 will easily deliver 2900 foot pounds of energy, while the 308 will deliver 2400 foot pounds, under equal conditions - that is difference worth looking at.

The barrel length has nothing to do with this comparison.


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Gosh, the Sierra Reloading manual says that in the .308 Winchester loaded with 43.8 grains of IMR-3031 and a 150 grain Sierra bullet will deliver 2900 FPS and 2801 Foot-Pounds of energy. I searched all of their data for the .308 Winchester and every hunting load listed for each bullet exceeded 2400 Foot-Pounds, even for the 190 and 200 grainers. I'm not disputing your statement that the .308 will deliver 2400 Foot-Pounds of energy, it will, and then some. But one doesn't start diminishing velocity (and energy) with most cartridges until the barrel length gets much beyond 26 to 27 inches.

And just for the record, all things are not equal between the two cartridges. There is a pressure differential of approximately 2000 PSI. The history of the two cartridges and the U.S. Army's desire to provide similar performance in a smaller package dictated the changes as well as the similarities.
 
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Originally Posted By: UncleDoc

"There is a pressure differential of approximately 2000 PSI."



There is a 2,000 psi difference between any two boxes of ANY cartridge you get off the shelf.

Also, the civilian and military do NOT read pressures the same way, so the pressures are not comparable.

And, since we are talking about civilian loads for BOTH of these - the pressures are equal within tolerances, and both are loaded to the low 50 thousands.

Quote: The history of the two cartridges and the U.S. Army's desire to provide similar performance in a smaller package dictated the changes as well as the similarities.

It was not the goal - the two cartridges were never the same performance.

If you believe they are the same, then do so with my best wishes.

'nuff.

 
The SSAMI recommended pressures for the .308 Winchester and the .30-06 Springfield are 62,000 PSI and 60,000 PSI (50,000 CUP) respectively.

If I can quote the Sierra manual previously referenced "Shortly after the end of World War I, the U.S. Ordnance Corps began looking for a smaller cartridge to replace the 30-06 Springfield." If I may continue, "By 1944, engineers at Frankford Arsenal had begun to experiment with the 300 Savage case. Designated as the Cartridge, Ball, Cal. 30 T65, the experimental round gave performance roughly equal to the larger 30-06. After a long series of modifications, a revised cartridge case designated as the T65E3 was adopted as the NATO standard on December 15, 1963. The U.S. finally embraced the 7.62mm NATO cartridge in two new weapons adopted in 1957 - the M14 rifle and the M60 machinegun."

I will say that the 7.62 x 51, when adopted was produced at a lower CUP than the pressure of the current day .308 Winchester and it is not recommended that one shoot .308 Winchester ammo in a chamber labeled 7.62 NATO. Not necessarily because of the pressure, but more the issue of headspace. I will also say that because of the larger capacity of the .30-06 case and the availability of the slower burning powders you can increase the velocity and energy of that great old cartridge. But that was not the point of the original post.

'nuf, 'nuf.
 
The 06 would show more gain with a longer barrel due to it primarily using a slower burn rate powder. You might gain a little in the 308 with the longer tube but it will be at the cost of maneiverability and weight. Ballistically it's not going to show much at all in the field but on the bench it may just be that very slight advantage.
 
Originally Posted By: UncleDocI have been shooting .308 Winchester rifles for a while now but grew up with an old Springfield in the .30-06 chambering. Much has been written about the .308 with bullets up to about 160g and the .30-06 with bullets heavier than 160g. Seems the difference in velocity is around 150 FPS in favor of the .30-06 for 180g and 200g bullets. Isn't that about the difference in a 24" barrel and a 22" barrel (usually on sporter model rifles)? Just thinking out loud here.

You will never make a .308 into a 30-06, even slanting the barrel length to the .308 advantage. Just as you will never make a 25-06 out of the .257 Roberts, or a 6mm-06 out of a .243 Win. A 7mm-08 will never be a 280 Rem. Just thinking out loud.
 
Everything has its place or they wouldn't be around or have lasted for so long. I love my 308 for shooting steel, maybe even hunt with it one of these days. I've got my 7mag so I have no use for a 06. You can pick and choose and do the same with either one, it just depends how much you want to get out of it.
 
A dumb thing to be arguing. You can quote pressure numbers from a book all you want. You can interpolate this and speculate on that and be hypothetical until your brain frazzles. But published pressure standards don't mean squat in relation to YOUR gun....unless you have test equipment on your gun while working on loads, and actually know what pressure they're making. In that gun. Most people don't do it that way and let the gun tell them when pressure's getting too high.
 


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