Coyote hybrids/ please read

Hey,
I just had this thought, what will this do to game laws? If these coyotes are really wolves then they are protected.
Leave it to the coyote to figure out any way to survive.
 
Thats very interesting. Did you post the link in the other topic as well? What do you think about it? The yote pic you posted in the "Calling in the East" thread looks awfully wolfish. I've seen some in Ohio that look like that as well.

I found it interesting that they re-introduced wolves in North Carolina. I didn't know that and I used to hunt 20 miles from the Carolina line.

I hate reading something and ending up with more questions than I originally had...LOL
 
I don't place too much stock in these individual studies myself. Here in Iowa I have seen zero evidence of coyote/dog crosses. We do have a lot of reddish tinted coyotes, and I have killed a few black ones but they looked to be strictly coyote to me. In looking at photo's posted here on Predatormasters, I am seeing evidence of possible coyote/wolf crosses in some parts of the country. I have also seen photo's here that convinced me that coyotes and domestic dogs do cross-breed once in awhile, but I still believe it is a rare occurence.
 
Thanks for the article Sleddog.

I agree with Rich pretty much about these study's. I have heard that you can get wolf DNA from a beagle or any other dog breed. From this I would conclude that you could get more wolf DNA from a german sheppard than you could from a german shorthair, and that they are all pretty much related to a wolf to some extent or another. I'm certainly no expert on this subject, but I do know a little bit about coyotes, wolves and their subspecies. In Texas alone there or three distict subspecies of coyotes, and I believe there's something like 15 different subspecies all together. Another good example of how varied a certain subspecies of a certain breed of animal can be, look at the whitetailed deer. There are 17 different subspecies of whitetailed deer in North America. The smallest of which are the keys whitetails of South Florida that weigh about 75#s for an adult male. At the other extreme is the Canadian whitetails that routinely weigh over 300#s. They are all still 100% whitetails, just different subspecies. I believe this is somewhat the case with the coyotes. Coyotes have bred with dogs. This has been proven to happen but the occurance is very rare. As mentioned earlier they are often if not always sterile and thus the hybrid breed is a non issue. This has also been proven with whitetailed deer and mule deer crosses. It sometimes happens but the offspring are sterile. The answer to which the Eastern coyote is a hybrid coyote/wolf or just another subspecies of coyote is one that I am not confident will ever be conclusively answered.

Side note: I was hunting bear with Jay Nistetter on the Eastern edge of Arizona, around Hanagan Meadows. This is where they have an extensive Red Wolf restocking program going on. We were fortunate enough to have one cross the road about 40 yards in front of us. Jay rolled the window down, lip squeeked, he stopped, Jay filmed him for a few seconds and then he left. We would have had some great footage of him if it weren't for the fact that Jay forgot to push the record button. I have killed some huge coyotes in my day and some that looked a lot like wolves, I thought, but when we saw this red wolf there was doubt what it was. His gait was different from a coyote and he carried his tail different than a coyote. Just more food for thought.
 
Howdy Byron, the Mexican greywolf is being reintroduced in Az where it once existed. The red wolf was transplanted to South Carolina.
Hybridization of canids has been the subject of a number of studies and offspring of such crosses are fertile. Dog hybrids usually die out with the first generation because of estrus phase shift which places whelping in midwinter and the pups don't survive and to the fact that the male behavior follows the dog side and they do not assist in puprearing leaving it to the female alone. Wolf social structure and behavior is close enough to the coyotes that subsequent generations do survive and continue to breed.
 
Howdy back at ya Rich /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif .Thanks for clearing things up for me. I stand corected. It is in fact the Mexican grey wolf that we saw and Jay didn't film. I have read that the so called "coydogs" are often infertile. Is this incorrect?

Byron
 
Sleddog, See if you can find some other backround on the people mentioned in that article. I did some research into the anti hunter movement there a few years back. Some of those names ring a bell for me. There was a group of antihunters trying to use a dna study to stop the hunting of coyote's in Massachussettes at that time. This article has that same antihunter tone to it . I have a ninety page folder of that stuff here somewhere. The man in hadley and the student really have my curiosity peaked. If I'm right the student is the same on that did your population study a few years back. If not , he is definately connected as that is the same college. Jimmie
 
Howdy again, Byron /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Dog/coyote hybridization research has been done extensively by Seton, Silver and Silver(bred more than fifty litters), Kenelly and Roberts, Mengel, Gipson, and Hilton. Wolf/coyote reseach was done by Kolensky, Mengel and Gipson among others I'm sure.
The gist of all this interspecies hanky-panky is that hybrid produced by these critters are fertile since the karotypes for the three species are identical (2N=78)which results in the F1 progeny being fertile.
Incidentally some of these guys apparently had too much money and too much time as they crossed every species of canid. Dingos, jackals, wolves, coyotes and foxes. I can't remember the results of the fox hybridization but all the others were successful. I don't know if the progeny were fertile between the dingo X coyote, dingo X wolf, etc.
 
Thanks Rich. I knew, if anybody knew, it would be you. Hey that rhymes /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Merry Christmas

Byron /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
LOL...I'm trying to follow this topic on two different forums. General opinion seems to vary like a quarter spinning through the air.

The only conclusion I can come to is..."Aint everything bigger in Texas."...LOL

The yotes in the east are bigger, they're hard to get in the open, they have to deal with man more often, western hunting tactics don't work as often. It seems to me that it's a whole different ball game all together. As far as what they may have bred with goes...I don't care anymore. After reading this post it looks to me like they could be mutts for all we know.
 
Jimmie in Ky - Thats a point I never thought of. If they are deemed Wolf, I'm sure this state will close coyote hunting for good. They already ended land trapping, and hound running in '96. I'm sure they will end any kind of hunting any way they can. My state Biologist says here in Ma. all we can hope for is to "tread water" and not lose anything else.

I notice on the rare occasion I call one of those monster "coyotes", he respond with much less caution, and actually comes in easier than the little style coyotes. Maybe its just because he is so dominant.

I noticed the same thing a Rich Cronk though, and they look more wolfish, with thicker legs, and much larger, more rounded paws.

Man, I hope their study bombs, or our 'yote hunting days in this state will be over.
 


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