Last week my brother and I went on our annual prairie dog hunt. The shooting was spectacular and my 8 year old son and my nephew really worked over the dogs with both the .17 hmr's and .17 mach 2's. We shot over 800 dogs in one day but the interesting part was a conversation I had with the rancher. He told me this calving season he had a cow down with a stuck calf. The cow had been down a day before they rode up on her. The calf was half way out of the cow and dead. The head had been partially eaten by coyotes. What he wasn't sure of is whether the calf was dead before or after the coyotes got there. They pulled the calf and the cow lived but I thought this was an interesting story. Needless to say...I have permission to hunt coyotes this fall.
Coyotes and Cattle
- Thread starter wyoman
- Start date
Michael J. McCasland
New member
I've heard a few other very similar stories from vet's around here.
tlbradford
New member
What happened is more the norm than the coyotes killing both. The yotes will hang around to eat the afterbirth during calving season. Occasionally, a very bold, hungry, or both coyote or coyote pack will begin feeding on a calf before the delivery is complete. I stay busiest Jan-Mar hunting near cattle herds.
rowney
New member
tlbradford, i wonder if thats a regional thing having to do with the size of all animals involved, available food, etc...B/C when this happens around our place, and the area where I grew up, the yotes will kill them both more often than not, the scent of the afterbirth will lure them in, and one born at night with any complications has little chance. I have no clue as to why they would do it here and not do it in others areas of the country. Intersting huh?
canislatrans54
New member
Been there & seen that a few times too many, on my dad's farm over the years.
Good hunting!!
Good hunting!!
cmiddleton
New member
when i was a kid in sundance i saw one coyote stare down the cow while the other pulled on the calf. the cow and calf lived but the calf was paralized in the rear end i tryed but missed the back coyote and got the rancher and pulled the calf. coyotes also like to drag calves out on to the ice of the creek or pond knowing the cow will not follow them onto the ice.we calve in febuary and early march.
Jeff Erwin
New member
Rowney, it happens every where. not just in texas. I don't know of a dairy/cattle farm here that likes yotes. good hunting.
I still find it hard to believe that 2 or 3 coyotes could kill a full grown cow. Yes calves are weak and slow and dumb. But i have seen animal planet where 2 lions were going after a water buffalo and the buffalo shrugged them off pretty easily. A cow is probly the same size as a water buffalo but coyotes are alot smaller and weaker than lions.
rowney
New member
A water buffalo is a lot tougher animal than a cow. Most ranchers run cattle that go 16-17 years plus. Those cows during calving season dont have much chance if there are any complications. But, 2-3 yotes can and will bring down a full grown cow if they have to. But there are usually more easily available food sources.
I live on a farm and I just asked my dad about this. He said he has never seen or heard of it in his lifetime(40 something) and we live where there are ALOT of yotes.
Most coyotes dont even take out full grown sheep. Coyotes are very lazy(but smart) when it comes to food. They would rather take down something that is smaller and less risk of getting hurt. That is why they come to calls because they figure that it is going to be an easy meal.
Most coyotes dont even take out full grown sheep. Coyotes are very lazy(but smart) when it comes to food. They would rather take down something that is smaller and less risk of getting hurt. That is why they come to calls because they figure that it is going to be an easy meal.
In the Texas Panhandle where we hunt a lot one of the ranches we hunt had this happen last year an we used the carcass as a bait pile and wacked four or five mange coyotes over several days. I guess it is somewhat common place if the cow has gone off and had difficulties. They both would be vulnerable.
stevecriner
New member
Well ive said this before and im not saying that any folks are wrong. This is just my observation. I have never seen yotes bother healthy cattle. Key word healthy. Im not sayin i wont but thats just my observation so far.
JoeF
New member
Steve,
I have been around cattle in Mo. and IL. and agree with you. I would suspect that one big difference is that here we have herds of cattle confined in a relatively tight space, our concentrations measured in cattle per acre versus the 10's of acres per head in the W & SW.
For every one of our cows that is occupied giving birth there are 10, 20 , or more cows standing idly about within no more than 100's of feet more than willing to stomp the crap out of any canine that ventured in to the pasture. Coyotes or dogs tend to not hang about in those circumstances.
I have little doubt that a western cow without that protective screen of "destroyers" is at greater risk when occupied giving birth.
I've also had sheep in Mo. and IL. on several occasions over the years. I have experienced losses on three occasions, two of them on adults only. Each time the losses were a result of dogs. Two of those losses were caused by known well cared for pets.
Loose dogs are a far greater threat to livestock than coyotes, in my experience.
As I type this I can think of only one personal experience with depradation by a wild animal on any stock larger than a chicken. That consisted of a closely confined sow and pigs. Every couple of days she would be missing another pig. Each day her disposition got worse, to the point of huffing and puffing when you approached the pen. After about the seventh missing pig there was evidence that a red fox was the culprit, that evidence consisting of no more than a tail, an ear, and a few random patches of skin/hair. No more losses and the old gal's disposition returned to normal after a few days.
I have been around cattle in Mo. and IL. and agree with you. I would suspect that one big difference is that here we have herds of cattle confined in a relatively tight space, our concentrations measured in cattle per acre versus the 10's of acres per head in the W & SW.
For every one of our cows that is occupied giving birth there are 10, 20 , or more cows standing idly about within no more than 100's of feet more than willing to stomp the crap out of any canine that ventured in to the pasture. Coyotes or dogs tend to not hang about in those circumstances.
I have little doubt that a western cow without that protective screen of "destroyers" is at greater risk when occupied giving birth.
I've also had sheep in Mo. and IL. on several occasions over the years. I have experienced losses on three occasions, two of them on adults only. Each time the losses were a result of dogs. Two of those losses were caused by known well cared for pets.
Loose dogs are a far greater threat to livestock than coyotes, in my experience.
As I type this I can think of only one personal experience with depradation by a wild animal on any stock larger than a chicken. That consisted of a closely confined sow and pigs. Every couple of days she would be missing another pig. Each day her disposition got worse, to the point of huffing and puffing when you approached the pen. After about the seventh missing pig there was evidence that a red fox was the culprit, that evidence consisting of no more than a tail, an ear, and a few random patches of skin/hair. No more losses and the old gal's disposition returned to normal after a few days.
clayman90
New member
JoeF,
I gotta agree with you on the meanness of an old sow hog.
They will hurt you faster than any cow or bull I've ever seen.
I used to help a buddy take care of his hogs and at piggin time some of his old sows were so pissy you had to carry a scoop shovel or pitchfork just to shut them in their houses at night.
We were cutting needle teeth and tails and giving iron shots and I had to stand in the front of the house with a shovel to keep the sows out. That's with the door closed.
His sows were meaner than most.
I had some a few years before that when I was in high school and they were purebred York, you could sit with them while the were giving birth.
Possibly just the way they were handled.
I gotta agree with you on the meanness of an old sow hog.
They will hurt you faster than any cow or bull I've ever seen.
I used to help a buddy take care of his hogs and at piggin time some of his old sows were so pissy you had to carry a scoop shovel or pitchfork just to shut them in their houses at night.
We were cutting needle teeth and tails and giving iron shots and I had to stand in the front of the house with a shovel to keep the sows out. That's with the door closed.
His sows were meaner than most.
I had some a few years before that when I was in high school and they were purebred York, you could sit with them while the were giving birth.
Possibly just the way they were handled.
BillyTheKidd
New member
Lonny and Wiskers have there hats on right. Coyotes are not the bad doggies everybody thinks they are.
Darn straight they'd kill a calf if they wanted to. Most times they'd pass it and move on to an easy meal like some afterbirth or one that's already dead........Awww, the coyote killed it.
Darn straight they'd kill a calf if they wanted to. Most times they'd pass it and move on to an easy meal like some afterbirth or one that's already dead........Awww, the coyote killed it.
varmentwacker
New member
i live in east tx.we have yotes get calf sometime.but we have more of a problem with buzzards killing the calfs than yotes.i think that yotes get the blame for what the buzzards have done just because most people find a dead calf and first thing think that a yote got it.the bad thing about this is you cant shoot the darn buzzards.here i have to keep a good eye out.if a calf is born durning the day light hours you can bet there will be buzzards flying over trying to get a easy meal.they will take bites out of the cows butt and hind legs also.i have seen this with my own eyes.
Knapper
New member
Quote:
Loose dogs are a far greater threat to livestock than coyotes...
I don't think this can be stressed enough. Most people have no idea what Fiffy is up to all night when they leave them free to roam. They think that just because their dog lies around and sleeps on the porch all day, it must be just as lazy all night. Another mistake that people make is they don't think their cute, innocent little "puppy" could possibly do any damage. The thing they don't realize is that Fiffy joins Pookie and Schnookums and suddenly they have become a pack, capable of doing an incredible amount of damage to both livestock and wildlife.
I'm not sure how this works in other places, but where I come from, we had permission from the Sheriff to shoot any stray dogs in our livestock. He would come and investigate so that we could collect the damages from the dog owner when they turned up. This was easiest when the dogs had tags. If no tags, we would leave the dog(s) at the end of the driveway and wait for the dog owner to show up. It was really nice when they brought the Sheriff as it saved us a phone call! We once lost over 30 pregnant ewes (of about 50) in one night to two German Shepards who "had never done anything like this before."
It's 11:00 pm; do you know where your dogs are?!
Knapper
Loose dogs are a far greater threat to livestock than coyotes...
I don't think this can be stressed enough. Most people have no idea what Fiffy is up to all night when they leave them free to roam. They think that just because their dog lies around and sleeps on the porch all day, it must be just as lazy all night. Another mistake that people make is they don't think their cute, innocent little "puppy" could possibly do any damage. The thing they don't realize is that Fiffy joins Pookie and Schnookums and suddenly they have become a pack, capable of doing an incredible amount of damage to both livestock and wildlife.
I'm not sure how this works in other places, but where I come from, we had permission from the Sheriff to shoot any stray dogs in our livestock. He would come and investigate so that we could collect the damages from the dog owner when they turned up. This was easiest when the dogs had tags. If no tags, we would leave the dog(s) at the end of the driveway and wait for the dog owner to show up. It was really nice when they brought the Sheriff as it saved us a phone call! We once lost over 30 pregnant ewes (of about 50) in one night to two German Shepards who "had never done anything like this before."
It's 11:00 pm; do you know where your dogs are?!
Knapper
NM Leon
New member
Yellowhammer put up a link a while back that I've bookmarked:
http://www.sheepusa.org/index.phtml?page...ume=Volume%2019,%202004%20-Special%20Edition:%20Predation
There's easily a couple of days reading on that one site, but relevant to this discussion are some excerpts below.
In short, coyotes do kill livestock, goats, sheep, then cattle, in descending order. The amount of predation varies greatly depending on the area, and the livestock and predation management methods used.
Free roaming dogs, feral or not, can be as large a problem (or larger) as wild animal predation depending on the area.
Free roaming cats, feral or not, can be a huge problem for game bird populations too.
During the 1970s, a series of studies were conducted to evaluate and document coyote damage to sheep in the absence of management in western states (Huben, Shwiff and Bodenchuk, this issue). With adult sheep, losses range from 1.4 to 8.4 percent and lamb losses range from 6.3 to 29.3 percent. In a similar study conducted with Angora goats in South Texas, Guthrey and Beasom (1978) reported 49% losses of adult does and 64% losses of kid goats due to predators (primarily coyotes). http://www.sheepusa.org/index.phtml?page...ume=Volume%2019,%202004%20-Special%20Edition:%20Predation
Direct effects of predation (i.e., killing of animals) can result in significant economic losses to livestock producers. A recent publication by the USDA, Wildlife Services (2002) identified the following losses: (1) livestock losses attributed to predators, predominantly coyotes (Canis latrans), reach about $71 million annually; (2) cattle and calf losses to predators in the United States totaled 147,000 head during 2000. A National Agricultural Statistics Service (NASS) study valued these losses at $51.6 million; (3) sheep and lamb losses to predators in the United States totaled 273,000 in 1999. A NASS study valued these losses at $16.5 million; (4) In Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas, the three major goat-producing states, 61,000 goats and kids were lost to predators in 1999. A NASS study valued these losses at $3.4 million. Although direct losses of livestock due to depredation are often conspicuous and economically significant, they likely underestimate the total loss to producers because they do not consider indirect effects of carnivores as a result of livestock being exposed to the threat of predation without being killed.
http://www.sheepusa.org/index.phtml?page...ume=Volume%2019,%202004%20-Special%20Edition:%20Predation
http://www.sheepusa.org/index.phtml?page...ume=Volume%2019,%202004%20-Special%20Edition:%20Predation
There's easily a couple of days reading on that one site, but relevant to this discussion are some excerpts below.
In short, coyotes do kill livestock, goats, sheep, then cattle, in descending order. The amount of predation varies greatly depending on the area, and the livestock and predation management methods used.
Free roaming dogs, feral or not, can be as large a problem (or larger) as wild animal predation depending on the area.
Free roaming cats, feral or not, can be a huge problem for game bird populations too.
During the 1970s, a series of studies were conducted to evaluate and document coyote damage to sheep in the absence of management in western states (Huben, Shwiff and Bodenchuk, this issue). With adult sheep, losses range from 1.4 to 8.4 percent and lamb losses range from 6.3 to 29.3 percent. In a similar study conducted with Angora goats in South Texas, Guthrey and Beasom (1978) reported 49% losses of adult does and 64% losses of kid goats due to predators (primarily coyotes). http://www.sheepusa.org/index.phtml?page...ume=Volume%2019,%202004%20-Special%20Edition:%20Predation
Direct effects of predation (i.e., killing of animals) can result in significant economic losses to livestock producers. A recent publication by the USDA, Wildlife Services (2002) identified the following losses: (1) livestock losses attributed to predators, predominantly coyotes (Canis latrans), reach about $71 million annually; (2) cattle and calf losses to predators in the United States totaled 147,000 head during 2000. A National Agricultural Statistics Service (NASS) study valued these losses at $51.6 million; (3) sheep and lamb losses to predators in the United States totaled 273,000 in 1999. A NASS study valued these losses at $16.5 million; (4) In Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas, the three major goat-producing states, 61,000 goats and kids were lost to predators in 1999. A NASS study valued these losses at $3.4 million. Although direct losses of livestock due to depredation are often conspicuous and economically significant, they likely underestimate the total loss to producers because they do not consider indirect effects of carnivores as a result of livestock being exposed to the threat of predation without being killed.
http://www.sheepusa.org/index.phtml?page...ume=Volume%2019,%202004%20-Special%20Edition:%20Predation