Frankie B.
New member
Recently I posed several questios to the FWC about coyote hunting on the wildlife management areas. Here are the questions comments and answers I received:
Several of us hunters are trying to find a logical reason why electronic callers tape etc. are not allowed when hunting coyotes, other predators and varmints. We hoping there's a valid reason for this in
Florida but we can't seem to find one. Is there one?
Answer:
Florida prohibits taking game with recorded game calls as a matter of fair chase.
Game mammals are deer, squirrel, rabbits and hogs (in some areas).
Coyote and other furbearers can be taken with the use of recorded game calls. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Comments: Thankyou for responding to my last question concerning the use of electronic calls when hunting coyotes. It was a yes for coyotes but no for game animals. My next questions are as follows:
1. If I'm hunting only coyotes why is it forbidden to use a centerfire rifle during the small game season?
How about centerfire pistol? I don't see anything in the handbook preventing the use of a pistol.
2. My final question concerns nutria. Where can they be found in Florida and in what type of habitat? I do know that they are real problem of major proportions in Louisiana.
Comment: I think the coyote population is growing by leaps and bounds. They have no natural enemies and they must eat as well. I feel they are putting a big dent in the quail population, scrubjay and woodpecker as
well. It may be a good idea to allow coyote hunting year round on the WMA's. Doing so will also help the deer with fawn or partialy born fawn to survive. If it helps save one fawns life it's worth it.
Answer:
1. The possession of centerfire rifles is prohibited on Wildlife Management Areas during small game season for reasons of safety, improving the quality of the hunting experience for those who are dedicated small game hunters, and to limit the temptation to shoot out of season deer or hogs.
The small game season was created to reduce the increasing conflicts between two user groups on public lands, small game hunters and big game hunters. The differing styles of hunting create conflicts when quail hunters with dogs, stride through the woods disturbing those hunters in tree stands hunting larger game. Conflicts also occur when big game hunters don't properly identify their target and shoot a prized bird dog, thinking it's a deer. Squirrel hunters also don't appreciate the roar of large caliber centerfire cartridges scaring the squirrels back into hiding.
Be advised, the small game season is designed for small game hunters who are hunting resident small game, not those hunting unprotected nuisance wildlife like coyotes. Note that the restriction on the possession of centerfire rifles in small game season does not apply on private property.
2. Under Florida law, there is no differentiation made between centerfire pistols and centerfire rifles since in all instances, centerfire cartridges of the same caliber, can or could be used in either long or short barreled firearms. The barrel length of the firearm is inconsequential and not the issue here. The issue is better stated this way: There is no small game in Florida: quail, rabbits and squirrels, that is appropriately hunted with centerfire rifle or pistol cartridges.
3. Nutria are found in the northwestern part of the state, in the panhandle.
Thankyou for the rapid response to my original inquiry. I do understand and concur with the stated reasons for forbidding center fire rifles during small game season. However, several of my hunting friends still disagree. If a
case was ever brought to court, the judge would definitely state the rule is nebulous. Supporting the fact the letter of the law states "rifle" with nothing said toward pistol, I'm willing to bet the case would be dismissed.
To avoid conflict I suggest the wording be changed from "rifles" to "arms utilizing CF cartridges except shotguns." Then as an after thought, I have a Florida CCW license. Does that mean I cannot carry my 45 into the field for
self defense purposes should the need arise? Gary, thankyou for taking the time and listening to my comments and ideas.
Answer:
1. As I stated in my previous E-mail, the distinction between rifles and pistols for the purpose of hunting has already been decided in LEGAL president. Though common definitions of rifles and pistols are generally understood, there is no legal definition that distinguishes rifles from pistols because, LEGAL attempts to define the differences between rifles and pistols have failed. That's because neither the grip, stock, barrel length, overall length, or functioning of the action are unique to either firearm. Examples are pistols that can be converted to rifles just by adding an extension to the stock, and short and long guns that use the same ammunition, giving concrete evidence that the distinction between a rifle and a pistol is one in name only, and that the two are one in the same in FUNCTION and INTENT. In short, the mechanical components, the ammunition and the function of rifles and pistols are identical and cannot be separated in a clear and useful legal distinction.
The intent of the FAC in question is to prevent the use of centerfire firearms that have rifled barrels AND that do not use shotgun ammunition. Therefore, based on previous case law that has already been decided, the case would not be dismissed and the subjects would be found guilty.
2. You are right, things would be so much easier to interpret if the wording of the FAC were changed, but that's always a lengthy legal process that is a pain to tackle. Since the courts have already decided the matter, it becomes less of a priority for the agency to change the wording. However, there is a process for that to happen. I may suggest the rule change on your behalf.
3. Regardless of your concealed carry permit, you may NOT carry a concealed weapon on a Florida Wildlife Management Area unless it is a type of firearm allowed during that specific hunting season. For instance, a .45 semi-auto cannot be carried into a WMA in the archery, muzzle loading or small game seasons. It can be carried during general gun season when it is a legal method of taking game.
4. At the risk of seeming insensitive to your issues, and I don't mean to be, may I suggest a philosophical approach to interpreting and obeying hunting laws, that will help you stay clear of legal troubles and better help you enjoy your hunting experiences. The approach two tactics to deal with the legal and ethical aspects of hunting law and in your case, the issues surrounding your passion, varmint hunting.
The first part of this philosophy involves: Asking of yourself, or the agency regulating hunting in whatever state or country you happen to be in, this question: What is the intent of the law, and then acting upon that answer, rather than trying to figure out what loophole you can take advantage of. Hunting laws are intended to protect the resource and the rights of others we share the outdoors with. Adherence to the intent of the law, as well as the letter of the law helps insure that the law is successful in its ability to accomplish those goals.
The second part of the tactic involves petitioning the agency to create a special season, for hunters like yourself that prefer to hunt coyotes, nutria or similar unprotected wildlife. Turkey hunters, muzzleloaders, and bow hunters organized themselves and became successful in their endeavors to get special considerations. Why not you!
So fellow Florida coyote hunters. Lets get together and form a petition to the FWC to create a special consideration for coyote hunting. What do you guys think?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Several of us hunters are trying to find a logical reason why electronic callers tape etc. are not allowed when hunting coyotes, other predators and varmints. We hoping there's a valid reason for this in
Florida but we can't seem to find one. Is there one?
Answer:
Florida prohibits taking game with recorded game calls as a matter of fair chase.
Game mammals are deer, squirrel, rabbits and hogs (in some areas).
Coyote and other furbearers can be taken with the use of recorded game calls. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Comments: Thankyou for responding to my last question concerning the use of electronic calls when hunting coyotes. It was a yes for coyotes but no for game animals. My next questions are as follows:
1. If I'm hunting only coyotes why is it forbidden to use a centerfire rifle during the small game season?
How about centerfire pistol? I don't see anything in the handbook preventing the use of a pistol.
2. My final question concerns nutria. Where can they be found in Florida and in what type of habitat? I do know that they are real problem of major proportions in Louisiana.
Comment: I think the coyote population is growing by leaps and bounds. They have no natural enemies and they must eat as well. I feel they are putting a big dent in the quail population, scrubjay and woodpecker as
well. It may be a good idea to allow coyote hunting year round on the WMA's. Doing so will also help the deer with fawn or partialy born fawn to survive. If it helps save one fawns life it's worth it.
Answer:
1. The possession of centerfire rifles is prohibited on Wildlife Management Areas during small game season for reasons of safety, improving the quality of the hunting experience for those who are dedicated small game hunters, and to limit the temptation to shoot out of season deer or hogs.
The small game season was created to reduce the increasing conflicts between two user groups on public lands, small game hunters and big game hunters. The differing styles of hunting create conflicts when quail hunters with dogs, stride through the woods disturbing those hunters in tree stands hunting larger game. Conflicts also occur when big game hunters don't properly identify their target and shoot a prized bird dog, thinking it's a deer. Squirrel hunters also don't appreciate the roar of large caliber centerfire cartridges scaring the squirrels back into hiding.
Be advised, the small game season is designed for small game hunters who are hunting resident small game, not those hunting unprotected nuisance wildlife like coyotes. Note that the restriction on the possession of centerfire rifles in small game season does not apply on private property.
2. Under Florida law, there is no differentiation made between centerfire pistols and centerfire rifles since in all instances, centerfire cartridges of the same caliber, can or could be used in either long or short barreled firearms. The barrel length of the firearm is inconsequential and not the issue here. The issue is better stated this way: There is no small game in Florida: quail, rabbits and squirrels, that is appropriately hunted with centerfire rifle or pistol cartridges.
3. Nutria are found in the northwestern part of the state, in the panhandle.
Thankyou for the rapid response to my original inquiry. I do understand and concur with the stated reasons for forbidding center fire rifles during small game season. However, several of my hunting friends still disagree. If a
case was ever brought to court, the judge would definitely state the rule is nebulous. Supporting the fact the letter of the law states "rifle" with nothing said toward pistol, I'm willing to bet the case would be dismissed.
To avoid conflict I suggest the wording be changed from "rifles" to "arms utilizing CF cartridges except shotguns." Then as an after thought, I have a Florida CCW license. Does that mean I cannot carry my 45 into the field for
self defense purposes should the need arise? Gary, thankyou for taking the time and listening to my comments and ideas.
Answer:
1. As I stated in my previous E-mail, the distinction between rifles and pistols for the purpose of hunting has already been decided in LEGAL president. Though common definitions of rifles and pistols are generally understood, there is no legal definition that distinguishes rifles from pistols because, LEGAL attempts to define the differences between rifles and pistols have failed. That's because neither the grip, stock, barrel length, overall length, or functioning of the action are unique to either firearm. Examples are pistols that can be converted to rifles just by adding an extension to the stock, and short and long guns that use the same ammunition, giving concrete evidence that the distinction between a rifle and a pistol is one in name only, and that the two are one in the same in FUNCTION and INTENT. In short, the mechanical components, the ammunition and the function of rifles and pistols are identical and cannot be separated in a clear and useful legal distinction.
The intent of the FAC in question is to prevent the use of centerfire firearms that have rifled barrels AND that do not use shotgun ammunition. Therefore, based on previous case law that has already been decided, the case would not be dismissed and the subjects would be found guilty.
2. You are right, things would be so much easier to interpret if the wording of the FAC were changed, but that's always a lengthy legal process that is a pain to tackle. Since the courts have already decided the matter, it becomes less of a priority for the agency to change the wording. However, there is a process for that to happen. I may suggest the rule change on your behalf.
3. Regardless of your concealed carry permit, you may NOT carry a concealed weapon on a Florida Wildlife Management Area unless it is a type of firearm allowed during that specific hunting season. For instance, a .45 semi-auto cannot be carried into a WMA in the archery, muzzle loading or small game seasons. It can be carried during general gun season when it is a legal method of taking game.
4. At the risk of seeming insensitive to your issues, and I don't mean to be, may I suggest a philosophical approach to interpreting and obeying hunting laws, that will help you stay clear of legal troubles and better help you enjoy your hunting experiences. The approach two tactics to deal with the legal and ethical aspects of hunting law and in your case, the issues surrounding your passion, varmint hunting.
The first part of this philosophy involves: Asking of yourself, or the agency regulating hunting in whatever state or country you happen to be in, this question: What is the intent of the law, and then acting upon that answer, rather than trying to figure out what loophole you can take advantage of. Hunting laws are intended to protect the resource and the rights of others we share the outdoors with. Adherence to the intent of the law, as well as the letter of the law helps insure that the law is successful in its ability to accomplish those goals.
The second part of the tactic involves petitioning the agency to create a special season, for hunters like yourself that prefer to hunt coyotes, nutria or similar unprotected wildlife. Turkey hunters, muzzleloaders, and bow hunters organized themselves and became successful in their endeavors to get special considerations. Why not you!
So fellow Florida coyote hunters. Lets get together and form a petition to the FWC to create a special consideration for coyote hunting. What do you guys think?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
