Coyotes in New York State

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Does anyone know the numbers of the coyote population in New York State.Some areas are getting abundant with them.Near Oneonta New York i talked to a local and this year was the worse deer season he has ever seen in 30 years.He says it's due to the coyote population killing off the fawns in the spring,who really knows.Does DEC?????I think it's all about money.
 
Fawn kill is real. Before the coyotes came in thick in the Berkshires in the early '80's, I was used to seeing deer almost every outing while bowhunting. Now you can hunt hard all week for your shot.

I live in the country (way in the country), and used to have to drive with extreme caution for fear of a collision with a whitetail. Drive without concern now.

In Western Ma., the deer population is way down, and twice I have seen coyotes cross the road in the spring with a fawn in its mouth. If I have seen this while driving, you can imagine the carnage in the forest.

Not a bad thing for me, as I'd rather hunt 'yotes anyway.

NY and Ma fish and game are well aware of the problem, but downplay the impact coyotes have on the deer herd for obvious reasons.

Over the next ten years, I suspect Pa is next on the coyote "hit list" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Keep in mind the rising black bear and bobcat populations have also impacted fawn mortality.
 
Southern Tier New York State (Not to be Confused with NYC)
From 2005 to 2006 Coyote population is up
Turkey population is now on the rise(Drier than usual spring)
Rabbit population up this year(up-cycle)
Grouse/Woodcock Population down(should be up-cycle)
Squirrel population up
Bear population up
Woodchuck population non existant
Deer population down as a whole but more Buck and bigger buck
Reported sightings of Mountain lions/cougars way up
Red/Grey fox up
Coyotes have definetly decreased the overall deer population here but it appears that our buck are getting healthier as far as body size and rack size. I saw very few doe and even fewer small deer this year.
 
I an not so certain it is just coyotes... over the past few years people have been give so may deer permits in my area that they were harvesting 3 and 4 deer a season... per hunter.
 
oiler,

I agree that the deer population is down. It's extremely obvious to anyone who's in the field trying to fill their freezer I'm sure.
The question "why" can be a matter of several factors, of which, a few of them have been touched on here.

sleddog's observations of seeing "coyotes crossing the roads with fawns in their mouths" is an issue that can't be ignored. The coyote's will nab them shortly after they're born, and based on their instinctive necessity to "lay still", they're an easy grab for a hungry dog.
I've seen farmers running their hay choppers run right over them while cutting the fields. They hold still even then.

I don't know the real percentage of how many deer totally are killed by coyotes, but it would seem that the largest deer kills by coyotes is more directed towards the fawns. The only full grown deer that the coyotes seem to target are the sicker ones mostly, but I have personally seen a group of three coyotes chase down a large doe (who seemed healthy) and between them, drag her down to the ground and start feeding on her before she was dead.
This was at a distance of over 700yds, and I had no gun at the time. I was driving to and from a gunshop in Rochester, NY, and passed through some hunting areas I frequent once in awhile. As luck would have it, I had my binoculars and while sitting roadside, I watched this whole thing unfold. That poor deer died a miserable death, and within seconds, she was so badly mauled, I highly doubt she'd have made it even if I could've shot the three culprits.

Back to the point.....
I feel that the deer issue in NY state is a "combined reason" as to why the deer populations are dwindling, and a major part of it is NYS's DEC handing out doe permits like candy.
If you saw a ban for even 1 year, you'd see a major increase in the deer populations. When I moved here back in 1980-81, I was literally amazed at how many deer I saw grazing out in the fields at dusk. I had been hunting for several years by then, and the sight of seeing 150-300 deer out in the fields that surround Letchworth Park was a "mouth opener". It was visually amazing, and I'll never see that again, I'm sure.
Within 10yrs, it got less and less, and now you might see an even dozen if you're lucky.

My pet peeve is that NYS's DEC is making money off of a natural resource that is manily substantiated, or supported, by the labors of the state's farmers. Oh yeah, they toss the farmer's a bone by "allowing them" the right to take deer who are damaging their crops, but they have to obtain a permit to do that.

Even though the lower deer populations are obvious to DEC, do you think they'd curb the permits, or even invest more of the state's money to try and increase the populations, hell no.
Each year, even though the populations are lower and lower, the state keeps issuing more and more permits, that they say, are issued in the numbers they are to "control the deer heard"........BS.....
They know that if the population is down......so are your chances of getting one, which in turn, means no deer had been taken for the monies collected.
Your paying for a chance in another state "lotto" game.

Sorry for the rant folks, but I worked with DEC in my last job, and what I've said is based not only on my visual observations, but also from verbal "slips" from some of my DEC buddies.

As a local remedy to the deer issue, my neighbor's and I are planning to start planting cover crop "food plots", and spend some of our hard earned cash to try and assist the local poulations. More than likely it won't produce a huge difference, but at least it's an effort to aide them. I love to hunt deer, as well as coyotes, fox and chucks, and I've realized over the years that the hunter is actually their best friend overall.

Take care,
Bob
 
Folks - with the sharp decline in whitetail in the Berkshires, so has the coyote population declined here also. While folks appear to be seeing coyotes alot, my sightings and call-ins have dropped under half of what they were a decade ago.

Theory only - abundant fawn population gave coyote litters an easy food source and increased pup survival in the 80's into the mind 90's. Massive coyote population explosion, and smaller coyote territory because of easy food.

More Theory - In that same timeframe trapping and hound hunting was banned in Massachusetts, and maybe the extra coyote population has caused smaller litter sizes and leveled out to the coyote population I see today. Less easy food may have leveled out the population because of the need for much larger hunting territories.

Fact - my kills increased every year fron 1976 until roughly 1995. In that year my killed coyotes was at an alltime high of 26 dead coyotes.

Since late 90's until the present, I am hard pressed to kill more than 10 to 12 dogs a year. And thats hunting pretty hard for an "old fella". Simply less dogs running around in these forests.

Maybe a biologist can shed light on whats going on, but my theory is that coyote population in my neck of the woods follows the whitetail population numbers. Lots of deer, lots of dogs. Downturn in whitetail, decreased coyote numbers.

Just a theory, but its all I can account for the decline in coyote numbers in Western Ma.

But to go along with that theory of less coyotes, Massachusettes has just reported a major increase in bowkilled deer. Shotgun numbers are not out yet. As the deer herd starts to recover, I will be interested to see if the coyote call-ins increase also in the next few years.

Biologists .........are the deer and coyote linked as closely as I assume in the Northeast, or am I missing something obvious????????

I mean other than the fact I'm gettin' older /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

And to add more confusion, my bobcat call-ins have nearly doubled in the last ten years...........REAL confusing.
 
Despite the opinions of many, I do not believe that fawns are as easy a food source for the coyotes as one might think. Though their instinct is to lay still, they are born scentless and the does go to great lengths to keep the bedded fawn locations a secret. I have little doubt, however, that they are vulnerable during the first few weeks on their feet.

Remember that most fawns are born at the same time that there is usually an abundance of more common foods for the coyote, especially moles/voles/mice. Coyotes with pups will likely find it much easier to grab a couple dozen mice instead of one fawn.

As for the deer population - no one is ever happy with the dmu permits - one guy complains that too many permits are issued (because he doesn't see enough deer), one guy complains that not enough are issued (because he didn't get drawn for one). If there was an easy answer I think we'd have it by now.
 
The "odorless fawn" is a wives tale. At the very least they smell just like their mom that they nusrse with. The fawns I saw in coyotes mouths were a bit older, not tiny newborns.

I have spoken to the state biologist residing in the Dalton, Ma headquarters, about 20 minutes East of the NY border. The state estimates 50-70 percent of all fawns that hit the ground are eaten by coyotes or black bear. Thats not my estimate, but the state biologist.

That is devestating to any deer population.

This long discussion was "off the record", and the state of Massachusettes has no public comment on coyote predation. But you will probably see the deer herd shrink in Pa soon. After two mild winters you know we should have deer coming out our butts.

I have bowhunted in Columbia county, NY since I was 16, and the whitetail decrease there in the last 10 years has been astounding /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Strong deer herds don't "vanish" unless something changes. That change is coyotes.
 
I have 28 years in with N.Y.S. Parks I have lived in a state park for the past 25 years. I can stand out side of my door and when the 7pm fire whistle goes off I can identify three distnct groups of coyotes sounding off. I and several other personell were in a den site this past year and found 17 different fawn skulls along with other small game remains. I live approximately 50 miles outside of NYC. I know that coyotes have made a big impact in my area hopefully for the better. We have way to many deer here and in my opinion they need to be thinned out. Mark
 
I know that the bears are taking fawns also but I just think that the coyotes have more of an impact just in sheer numbers. Although we are seeing more bears here in the past five years. We had one break in last year through the kitchen window!!!! I think that it is a combination of things, Bears and coyotes answering a need for predation and competition from turkeys for a lot of the same food sources. Our deer live in a climax forest and depend greatly on the acorn crop to get them through the winter months. They like your fancy gardens and shrubs too! If you can remember back to some of those harsh winters we had, combined with a poor mast crop it was devestating for the deer. I saw deer so weak from hunger leaning against trees trying to stay up on thier feet in the sun. When spring came I had to drag corpses out from under cabins where thy had gone seeking shelter. We did not have a strong predator population then so there was plenty of carrion around. I know that the deer population has boomed and certainly made sure my freezer was full. But now we are witnessing a change in the cycle. Mother nature at work!!!
 
A couple of things..worth mentioning.
1.The number of deer surviving the winters in the NE is directly linked to the carrying capacity of the winter range. If there is not enough food to support all the deer in a specific area thru the winter you will have mortality(good for coyotes).
2.The number of pups born to the coyote family each spring
is directly proportional to availible prey abundance.
Not enough food equates to fewer pups born.

3.Hunter/coyote factor.I have read that the alpha male and female are the only breeding pair in the coyote pack.
When a hunter kills an alpha male and female the pack will disband and form several packs(one reason we can't seem to eradicate the buggers)..
.
I would question the 60 to 70% mortality rate on fawns due to coyotes. Where did you find that bit of data?

ok I'm all done trolling now.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Gee, I did not see any data in my post. What I am saying is that we have had an incredible deer population here for quite some time. In my opinion we have been overpopulated and the coyote has had a a big impact on the deer. I think that we are witnessing that firsthand. As far as the numbers YOU threw out there I don't know if they are accurate or not. I am drawing conclusions from my own first hand observations. I agree with you completely that the deer population is linked to the carrying capacity of the winter range. We have had to many deer here in this area and thats why the coyote population has boomed (Mother Nature At Work) I know I saw less deer in the woods this year and I know that I have seen more coyotes this year. For some reason I have seen quite few more red fox also. Where I live approximately 25 years ago the state opened up a section of the park for deer hunting.The DEC had a check in point right in the area that I worked. I checked in every day to see how things were going. The head of the big game unit for the Dec stated that it was the worst case of inbreeding, malnutrition and deformity that he had seen in a three state 25 year long career. We did not have a significant population of predators then. Now that we do hopefully it will help to balance things out. Maybe,maybe not we'll have to wait and see. Isn't this the way it is supposed to be? I have talked to some of the old timers here and they can remember when there were'nt that many deer in the area and you really had to hunt em hard. Varmonter I have a friend in Tinmouth Vermont and he tells me that your deer herd has really been decimated by the coyotes. And the wood chuck population is almost nil. In my opinion I think that might very well happen in my area.
 


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