Discussion of bullet Brand choice

[Sgt_Mike]

I have noticed on differing sites, there is a differing preference of bullet manufacturers.
Here seems to be the Hornady, although my personal taste is a bit different. I lean more towards Sierra, Nosler, and Speer. Of course Berger, and the custom makers are on that list as well. Not saying Hornady doesn't make good worthwhile bullets.
Just curious in a degree, as to why so many on here have leaned towards them when recommending.
Many moons ago when I actually shot competition actively, I used the 168gr SMK, and if I couldn't either afford them at the time. Or just unavailable my next go to was the old Hornady 168gr National Match. Which shot almost on par with the SMK, and was usually less cost. Depending on lot, they at times out shot the SMK's . Hornady has long discontinued that bullet being replaced with the AMP jacket etc etc. Which for my purpose wasn't a improvement no matter what the marketing boys said.
I kind of think I actually know why, but I guess I prefer to hear if my assumptions are correct.
That said I do think Hornady does do a good job with their products, in no way am I bashing them.

 

[popper43]

Hornady - cost and availability. They work fine.

 

[derbyacresbob]

I have to use lead free bullets and shot for all of my hunting. The Honady 35 gr NTX 22 cal bullet is a great little bullet for coyotes and ground squirrels. I wish Hornady made a 6 mm lead free bullet in the 65 gr to 70 gr weight.

The Barnes 62 gr Varmint Grenades lead free bullets do a pretty good job on coyotes out of a 243 Win, 243 WSSM and now out of my 6 mm Creedmoor.

 

[Duhhh]

I never used to be a bullet loyalist when I shot factory ammo, but I got into reloading during the height of Covid and Hornady was by far the most available selection within a 500 mile radius and online. There were some brands available but they were in limited quantities or I had no use for them. I’ve sort of stuck with them out of loyalty and knowing that they’ll likely be available if we have another huge shortage again. Plus the eldm, eldx, vmax, and ELDVTs have all shoot very well and killed everything that I’ve shot.

I still use other brands of bullets and there’s a lot of great ones out there. Hornady just happens to be my preference for cost and reliability.

 

[AWS]

I'm a big Speer and Nosler fan.

Speer because they get the job done, accurate enough and the price is outstanding. .223.and .243

Nosler because their small bullets are accurate and stout enough for coyotes. .204, .224 and .243

Sierra because they make a 35 cal 200gr RN.

Hornady because they make a 250 gr RN for my 35 Whelen.

Buffalo Arms for their lighter .228 bullets and 9.3 stepped bullet.

Bob have you tried the Nos. 6mm 55gr Lead Free, I worked up loads for it in my 6mm-204 and 6x45 and it worked well on coyotes. I was saving pelts at the time and the 62gr VG left huge exits.

I do.have about 7 ft of bullet box of all brands(50 yr collection) so I have pretty many manufacturer represented.

 

[hm1996]

Many moons ago when I actually shot competition actively, I used the 168gr SMK,

The SMK's were the gold standard when I shot competition back in the '80's - '2000 and go to bullet to check a questionable rifle's accuracy since.

Nosler because their small bullets are accurate and stout enough for coyotes

NP go to hunting bullet for tougher stuff. NBT's predators. Accubonds for everything not requiring NP's. If I were still shooting competition I would not hesitate to use Noslers as the BT's and AB's I've used have all been very accurate, as well as performing well on game.

 

[alf]

My go to out of the gate for accuracy is almost always Bergers of some flavor, everything else is in 2nd place......

 

[Dew Claw]

Part of it for me is the cost but also when the pandemic hit Hornady kept the price down and the shelves full. All the others jumped on the inflation train and rode it for all they could get. Hornady got my loyalty at that point. Accuracy is also very good with Hornady.

 

[Hunter55]

I used to reload Sierras for deer and antelope. Hornady Vmax for coyotes however, last year I starting testing Nosler BT, Speer TNT and Berger FB VT, and have since discarded the Hornady Vmax for yotes. I still reload Vmax for PD's.

 

[K22-hornet]

Big game-Barnes, TSX or TTSX, in 243, 270 and various 30cals.

Coyotes-22cal usually 55gr B-tip or 55gr Sierra BTSP; from the Hornet, 45gr Barnes XLC;
243-75gr Vmax, 70gr Btip, and would like to again try the 55gr Btip at 4,000+. The only time I used the 55gr Btip from a 243, I had more runners and floppers than I cared for, so stopped using them.

 

[hunt0168]

My preference for bullet manufacturer is based 100% on performance for the given caliber and intended use. For predators my rifles are 204 Ruger and 243 Win.

204 my number one is Berger 35 gr followed closely by 40 gr NBT. Both perform admirably, but the Bergers shoot tighter groups from my rifles. Bergers are a touch better for saving fur. My experiences with Hornady vmax was less than stellar.
243 I have nothing bad to say about the 75 gr vmax, whereas the 58 gr vmax out of my 8 twist Tikka tended to make a mess of things. I'm currently running 55 gr NBT and the long term testing has just begun. They have dropped the only two I've taken impressively.

 

[DiRTY DOG]

Bob have you tried the Nos. 6mm 55gr Lead Free, I worked up loads for it in my 6mm-204 and 6x45 and it worked well on coyotes.

The 55 lead frees shoot great and kill coyotes very well! But Nosler hasn't made any in like 5 or 6 years. I've called a few times and they always say they're next in line or some BS but they never make them. If you email they won't even respond.

 

[arlaunch]

My preference for bullet manufacturer is based 100% on performance

Yeah!

I suppose if I was a fan boy it would be Sierra.

But in reality, I have a wide variety of calibers I shoot from lever rifles to single shot, from bolt to gas, and there are many different color bullet boxes on my shelves.

I am a huge fan of Sierra Varminter's & TGK's, Barnes TTSX's, Speer Gold Dots, Nosler Ballistic Tips and Partitions.

 

[Dennyr]

OK, After 2 bad results with Hornady 30cal spire points was pretty Anti Hornady. Had no problem with Nosler,Speer, Sierra. Never cared for Barnes. But after Covid and the "shortages" I started to see the bullet makers true colors. Nosler and Sierra both seemed to jump on the lower production and raise the price bandwagon. I could live with just Speer if availability would improve. Throughout this, Hornady was available with a decent price point. Just for this they deserve consideration. As a plus they have a pretty decent product.

 

[c_bass16]

it's

I have noticed on differing sites, there is a differing preference of bullet manufacturers.
Here seems to be the Hornady, although my personal taste is a bit different. I lean more towards Sierra, Nosler, and Speer. Of course Berger, and the custom makers are on that list as well. Not saying Hornady doesn't make good worthwhile bullets.
Just curious in a degree, as to why so many on here have leaned towards them when recommending.
Many moons ago when I actually shot competition actively, I used the 168gr SMK, and if I couldn't either afford them at the time. Or just unavailable my next go to was the old Hornady 168gr National Match. Which shot almost on par with the SMK, and was usually less cost. Depending on lot, they at times out shot the SMK's . Hornady has long discontinued that bullet being replaced with the AMP jacket etc etc. Which for my purpose wasn't a improvement no matter what the marketing boys said.
I kind of think I actually know why, but I guess I prefer to hear if my assumptions are correct.
That said I do think Hornady does do a good job with their products, in no way am I bashing them.

While I didn't seen much in the realm of "academic" in that postulation...and my initial stance is somewhat skewed by your followup mention of 308 bullets, I'll attempt to be cordial.

1st isn't meant to be a dig...it's just honest.
Predator hunters are cheap. If you can get a cheap bullet that will kill predators...they are always in stock in the majority of stores. Thats a really good bullet to use.
Again, not a dig at anyone. Just the truth. Coyotes are easy to kill and you don't NEED better than 1 moa to kill them.

In the realm of the 308 portion of the conversation in regards to competition...things open up a bit.
For match bullets, or even match grade bullets for big game critters...I don't care in the slightest about finding them at my local shop, or if a box of 100 is $2-3 cheaper.
I'm working up loads for accuracy, consistency and performance in flight. Once I find the bullet I want to use in a certain caliber...I'll most likely use it for all cartridges in said caliber.
An example is that I use a 6mm 115 Dtac in a 6 Dasher, a pair of 6 Creedmoor, a 6x284 and a 6mm Rem. It's at or near the top in weight for it's class, and it's bc rivals many of the more common 6.5 bullets used. They come in boxes of 500 and I generally buy 4000 - 5000 at a time. Licenced by David Tubb for Superior Shooting Systems...I'm 99% sure they are still made by Sierra.

In my larger 6.5s like the PRC and SAUM I use for competition, I prefer that 150 SMK.
In the smaller 6.5s like an 18" Creed and PRC I hunt with...the 130 TMK shoots perfectly.

Big long range shooting, it's hard to pick anything other than an ultra heavy Atip. a 190 in my 7mm Rem Mag and 250 in my 300 Norma Mag Imp.

I guess to make a long story short...the proclivity to pick a specific bullet, at least for me...is going to depend on what I'm using it for. Some I buy in bulk for uses that don't require any measurable performance...and others are single stack packed in velvet bags at nearly $1 per bullet.

 

[Sgt_Mike]

I suppose if I was a fan boy it would be Sierra.

Yeah I'm probably guilty as well.

I'm a big Speer and Nosler fan.

After I retired and got into Varmint hunting, the Speer TnT offerings has been fast replacing my stance on Sierra as a go to. They shoot well, and at a price point that I don't mind spending on killing things in the rodent family. There is at least two lines that Nosler has that I do keep a eye on in the .224 and 6mm bore.

Covid and the "shortages" I started to see the bullet makers true colors. Nosler and Sierra both seemed to jump on the lower production and raise the price bandwagon. I could live with just Speer if availability would improve. Throughout this, Hornady was available with a decent price point. Just for this they deserve consideration. As a plus they have a pretty decent product.

I had not considered that point of view. Good observation. Valid point.
Locally the shelves here are mostly filled with Hornady products vs the other brands. Although if one expands the range some few offering will be available.

243 I have nothing bad to say about the 75 gr vmax, whereas the 58 gr vmax out of my 8 twist Tikka tended to make a mess of things. I'm currently running 55 gr NBT and the long term testing has just begun. They have dropped the only two I've taken impressively.

This past friday, my hunting buddy whom also is my Army buddy for years. Knows of my weakness for the 721 and 722 Remington's which may or may not be. At the same level that @hm1996 has for Winchester 70's. He had observed (found) a 721 done in 6mm Rem Ackley Improved (the 6mm Remington is another weakness) . He drags me over to where it was and it follows me home. Naturally I went through it once home, checked the twist to see what I might be able to feed it 1-7.5T, ok I tend to like slower twist for varmint class shooting. Not owning a borescope I go over to my smith and get him to check the throat erosion and validate my observation of rate of twist. Throat was fine confirmed my findings on twist.
I had some regular 6mm Rem loads that was done up years ago for the 722 I have. So I asked if I could step out back and pop off three to fireform. He was fine with it. About the time I fired the three rounds, he asked if he could shoot it. Sure I said (knowing full well that if I pull out the ammo box of 50 loaded up he would shoot all of them haha) so I grab the box that only had 20 loaded up with some custom made 68grs with 42 gr of win 748 that I had been doing load development in the 722 (marked .244 Remington on the barrel). Stopped with the 722 because the throat was gone even though occasionally I would get a good group with the 55gr Nosler's and IMR 8208XBR.
The 721 (the one I just bought in AI) dropped 5 shots in 1/2" at 100 yards right off the bat. But the maker of the 68gr bullets is out of business as in retired so now they are not available for resupply.

All that was just to say interested in your results in the .243W with the noslers, I'm thinking that they "should" work well in the 6mm Rem AI for gopher/PD as well.
Although I do have 2 boxes of the 85gr #1530 HPBT stashed away, until I get some of the Noslers to try.
Although now I'm on the look out for 6mm Rem AI dies. Might have found a source on the old Vickerman 6mm inline seating die.

I'll attempt to be cordial.

the proclivity to pick a specific bullet, at least for me...is going to depend on what I'm using it for. Some I buy in bulk for uses that don't require any measurable performance...and others are single stack packed in velvet bags at nearly $1 per bullet.

Thank you.

 

[hunt0168]

All that was just to say interested in your results in the .243W with the noslers, I'm thinking that they "should" work well in the 6mm Rem AI for gopher/PD as well.

Hi,Sarge. As I have stated several times before, I am not a handloader and use factory ammo. The Winchester Ballistic Silvertip ammo that run the 55gr NBT shoot lights out accurate from my Tikka. When I was initially considering the purchase of a 243 Tikka, I asked for opinions on the 8 twist for bullets on the lighter end of the spectrum. 55 - 75 gr specifically. I was pretty hung up on getting a 10 twist but was having trouble finding one. This was going to be a dedicated coyote rifle and stabilization of the heavier bullets wasn’t a concern. Some members here agreed with my thoughts on the 10 twist, but just as many assured me that outside of maybe losing a little bit of velocity with the faster twist, the 8 twist would shoot the light stuff just fine. And it does at that!

My Tikka has a 22” barrel and I shoot unsuppressed due to ridiculous NY state laws restricting their use. 75 gr vmax shot well and were surprisingly less destructive to fur than I thought they would be. 58gr vmax from Hornady’s Superformance line shot very well accuracy wise, and killed coyotes well, but a high percentage of a small sample group proved to be far more devastating to fur. A few guys here on PM have great success with them in fast twist barrels and claim otherwise. I only know what I experienced? The 55 gr NBT’s are shooting exceptionally well from my Tikka, as I stated. With only a sample size of 2 coyotes with them at this point, they seem to be less destructive on entry than the 58gr vmax. I haven’t had an exit yet, but it will not surprise me if they do.

It should be noted that I really do not sweat the fur damage. The fur market is in the shitter, and our eastern coyotes arent as desirable in the first place. BUT… I would rather see the devastation on the exit side of the animal rather than the entrance side. If it’s blowing up on the surface going in, there’s going to, at some point, be a wounded, suffering animal out there that got away because the bullet failed to get into the engine compartment. That doesn’t set well with me, even for coyotes. My experience has been that NBT’s are a bit more robust than vmax when comparing similar caliber weights. They tend to drive a bit deeper.

 

[hm1996]

At the same level that @hm1996 has for Winchester 70's.

Oh, did I mention that I liked Mod. 70's somewhere, sarge? Hey, ya gotta dance with the gal what brung ya.

My experience has been that NBT’s are a bit more robust than vmax when comparing similar caliber weights. They tend to drive a bit deeper.

For a .30 cal. competition bullet, the Sierra Match Kings 168's for short range and the 190 SMK's for long range are the bees knees! Played around with their 155's but didn't see any improvement over the old 168's.
I shot a lot of NP's over the years for big game because they stood up in the magnum calibers; at that time, Hornady spire points were the only other bullet that held together well. Fast forward to coyotes, hogs and culling whitetails w/223 I found the 55gr NBT's would handle the job and were super accurate in both Savage 1:8 and Bushmaster (I believe 1:9 IIRC). Never saw the need to experiment w/other weights or bullets.
Didn't experiment w/loads for the Dtech 243 WSSM either. Mike suggested a good load w/Hornady 87 gr BTHP varmint bullet and there was no need to try anything else.
By the time the .338 WM came along I was pretty sold on Noslers and found the 210 partition shot flat and hit like a hammer on all the critters I hunted, shot same POI as the 200 gr AB. Played around w/some NBTs (which shot well also) but settled on the partitions and AB (which were just a shade more accurate than the partitions, but not worth mentioning). Guess you would say I'm a Nosler fan.

 

[Sgt_Mike]

Hey, ya gotta dance with the gal what brung ya.

Very true.... very true, I guess that is my affection with the "old" non modern 721/722 family. As well as her younger sister the 700. Although the Win 70 is always a lusty, exotic, beauty queen girl winking across the dance floor, while I dance with "my" girl. The devil she is.

For a .30 cal. competition bullet, the Sierra Match Kings 168's for short range and the 190 SMK's for long range are the bees knees! Played around with their 155's but didn't see any improvement over the old 168's.

I will sort of sound counter view point. But not, the 155gr Palma SMK is a hard load development, but used exclusively at the palma matches, first with the 30-06, then with the 308W. And with very slow twist akin to 1-12 ,1-14, 1-16"" but definitely not usually the 1-10" T, although I think some teams have done that very thing. After I had fired my last EIC match (EIC replaced HP in the military circles, F-class was just getting stable and gaining traction, PRS wasn't even a stain on the sheets yet. Just to set the time line nothing against any discipline). The 30-06 721 that I posted about I had built, in that rifle the 155gr Palma SMK with IMR 8208XBR performs excellent. I have played with that bullet in the 308W, it does perform well, although not as well as in the 721 30-06 at the "Long Line", which is where really shines to me. Some curse it, saying too difficult, but again I wasn't shooting against anyone, just me.
In shooting a HP match in the .30 bore I like everyone I knew of used the 168's out to the 600 yard line max. If firing at a bit longer range the 190's (inject the 175 SMK here for the 308W, for velocity) regardless if 308W or 30-06. My results echoed your's to a T. The 168 SMK although a great bullet just wasn't the performer at 1000 yard that the 175/190 SMK.
But sadly that is the past, the ancient past to some of the younger shooters on here, fast forward to today. The offerings today, have slimmed up when looking on shelves, the new modern online ordering method well it is sort of like the shelves used to be. My point of using this in the question was selection was based on only one thing accuracy and availability. I know sidebar and not on track, just explaining why I injected the "match" choices.
-------------
But I had noticed on here that there was definitely a preference to recommend Hornady when folks asked for load help. That seemed to piqued my interest as to why? And it seems that actually most have actually answered the question without saying it. Pelt damage /DRT effect, cost, acceptable accuracy.
Personally I lean more towards hunting the varmint critters. This sort of changes the above mentioned priorities order for me. But is in alignment just not the exact order. Although does remove pelt damage from the equation, I don't know anyone whom skins Gophers and PD, there may be ??
Some reason I just enjoy the daylights out of shooting a critter, which is like a shook up beer or soda can. Yes I know my sadistic side is showing through, haha, I think we all have a bit of that. Besides they are great live targets to hone one's skills. Dang it thread drifted again.
So thanks to everyone whom has responded to the question. And hopefully this doesn't kill the thread, as the view point of bullet selection is interesting.
Respectfully
Mike

 

[soup]

Fellows,
My allegiance lies with no bullet manufacturer. If it shoots well in a particular rifle I continue to purchase and use
that particular bullet for the intended job. Trying to get a couple of Ruger No.1 rifles to shoot moa I used 30 different powder, bullet combinations. Eventually it paid off. Another consideration besides accuracy is the effect of said bullet on the game animal. We are required to make an efficient humane kill. Getting the right powder / bullet combination for the requirements takes some time and record keeping-it's not hard to do and there's no rocket science involved.
Make the right choices, it will be very rewarding for you to know once you squeeze the trigger it's a done deal.
Everyone, have a very safe and successful season.
Semper Fidelis
Soup

"Down South 68-69"