Don't Kill Coyotes Here

H

Handloader

New member
Just like the last election, perceptions often overrule facts. In the process, sometimes the factual information can get a tad hard to verify, let alone agree upon.

Near Wilcox, Arizona are a number of ranchers that want higher numbers of coyotes on their land. As is habit, I talk to ranchers before hunting on their land or in proximity to their land and found this attitude was common on several adjacent ranches. One rancher was disturbed by my "kill 'em all" mentality. Another took time to explain his reasoning and got my attention as he has 40 years ranching experience as well as a degree in Animal Husbandry.

His rationale centered around the abundance of rabbits that, he says, costs far more in feed and alfalfa loss than cattle loss to coyotes. In fact, in his 40 years of ranching, he has lost only two steers to coyotes and very little loss to poultry (he has some good pens). He believes that a higher coyote population controls the rabbit population. Of course, I asked permission to shoot rabbits and he readily agreeded and sent me to a section where, in fact, they were bountiful -- good country for those pipsqueek 17s! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Other ranchers have reported much higher beef prices and are less reluctant for callers to reduce the coyote population. Several have contacted me or my son to come to their area "anytime" and hunt long and hard.

This post is only to stress the importance of understanding the viewpoint of ranchers or those on whose land you may wish to call and the importance of communication with landholders.
 
Handloader,

Some believe if you don't have a problem with coyotes getting your stock, leave them alone as killing livestock is a learned trait. Why kill your coyotes who aren't bothering you to make room for some who may just be livestock killers.

An interesting concept to say the least. I have a couple of guys who won't let me coyote hunt because they have too many deer. They believe the coyotes thin their deer herd (which they do) but for some reason I can't convince them that by killing coyotes, more will come in. They don't understand population dynamics so well.
 
This is a very interesting topic. I'm a pretty firm beleiver in "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I have to agree with the opinion that if your current crop of coyotes aren't killin your stock, why take them out and invite maybe more aggresive ones in?

Mike, I've got a question for ya though. With the re-introduction of wolves through the west, will a coyote group defend it's territory against an invading wolf pack or will the coyotes just move on.
 
Tonlucus,
Coyotes will defend their territory, until they're all dead!

All joking aside, coyotes are mince meat if a wolf catches them in the open. The same goes with coyotes and fox. Unlike in our politically correct world, in the natural world, winner takes all!
 
I've experienced similar responses when asking about coyote hunting. I asked my friend one time if he had coyotes on his land (his family owns a cow herd)and when he said yes, I asked him if he wanted them thinned out (which is kind of funny because I've never killed one...). He said no. I was kind of dumfounded as to why he wouldn't. He said that if the coyotes he has aren't bothering his herd, why make room for ones that will? I thought that that made sense, so I didn't push it any further.
 
Somewhat the same thing is happening here with a few farmers that use the no-till method of farming. Farmers that no-till do not turn over the soil after harvest and the ground is left in stubble. With the extra cover, mice do very well. The mice can than have an effect on sprouting wheat according to the farmers. Some farmers are now welcoming the coyotes that now mouse in the fields that are no-till farmed. I know of several farmers that will allow deer and bird hunting but will request that no coyotes be shot on their property.

I once asked a landowner if I could hunt coyotes on his property. His response to me was, "Why would I want you to shoot coyotes on my property?" "They eat mice in my fields, catch the deer fawns in my barley, and clean up any dead critters I might have". Than he laughed and said, "Go ahead and hunt those coyotes but they ain't all bad!"

Tonlocus, a couple of years ago I spent two weeks helping an outfitter at his wilderness camp guiding lion hunters. I was amazed at the complete lack of coyote tracks. Wolves had become common in the area a few years before. I asked the outfitter why there wasn't any coyotes around? He said there was before the wolves moved in. Now to see a coyote was rare according to him.
 
My family has farm/ranched in the midwest for a almost 50 years now, and I've lived "out west" for almost 8. Back in the midwest, we noticed that with the rise of hawks, owls and to an extent eagles the quail population took a huge hit. For a while the coyotes were thinned enough to allow several fox dens, then the cycle changed again. This year we took 5 coyotes in 3 days out of an area less than 3/4 miles square. My brother and I both saw another coyote and just a few weeks ago my dad saw a pair in the same area. We've been trying to thin them some. But this is the first year that when my brother and dad went quail hunting they found 5 coveys on one 160 acre parcel. No explanation there. I'd hate to see all the coyotes wiped out, the foxes would move in, or another predator, but they should be controlled. And as sneaky as a coyote is, and we've all been burned once or twice, the danger of killing them all in this day and age is far fetched.

Reference wolves and coyotes, here in Montana, the coyotes don't talk much. When they do, it's very short communications. I've seen wolf tracks this year, down lower earlier this year, despite a fairly mild winter thus far. I've also seen tracks much closer to communities than the last few years. As well, I've noticed that while there are coyote tracks intermingled with the wolf, they are very tough to hunt, and a howler seems almost useless. Wolf packs are getting more numerous, (along with the grizzly bears) and the State of Montana is trying to get them delisted to allow draw tag hunts. But coyotes are no match for a wolf, especially running in a pack. I've seen a few wolves already and they are especially wary and elusive.

The point being, that while I love to see all these animals, there is a balance that must be struck. It seems no matter what we do the greenies want them all here and want to diminish human existance to several small areas, others want them all dead. I guess it begs the question, Can't we all just get along? :)
 
The largest land holding ranch in this area has had the philosiphy, 'no coyote hunting, they are not causing problems'. This same ranch runs pairs, yearlings, and around 5 thousand goats. This policy has been in place for several years. This past fall I was informed by the ranch manager, he wants me to come kill some coyotes. I think since the population has been left unchecked for several years, The coyotes have expanded their diet to include goats. I am not a biologist, but the point I think is that as populations go unchecked,whether it is predator or prey, mother nature has a way of leveling the playing field.
 
There are a few grass farms around here, and they have the same out look. When asked if you can hunt on or near their property , they will tell you to shoot all the rabbits you want. Shotgun only, and dont kill the coyotes.
 
I talked to a guy south of here and got this:

"The sheep ranchers around here will gladly let you hunt coyotes on their land. Coyotes like to eat sheep. The cattle men around here won't let you shoot'em though."

"Why is that?" I asked.

He replied, "Coyotes like to eat sheep."

Brad
 
I know lots and lots of ranchers that have never seen a calf killed by a coyote. In fact the largest landowner and rancher in my county has never seen or suspected a kill and he is 75 now. LOL His neighbor to the east figures every calf he looses is coyote related. I have noticed that the redder the coyote’s necks are the harder they are on calves. LOL

Good hunting.

Q,
 
I just have to get my $0.02 in here guys. I appreciate all the study and thought that goes into learning about coyote populations, predator vs. prey populations as well as livestock and "cattle-friendly" coyotes. But I have to get this statement in here, too: A coyote will eat anything it can. If there is an opportunity for an easy meal because a calf has lost its way, then you can count that calf dead due to predation. I think we're giving the coyote too much credit, here, folks. It is a predator and it will hunt, kill and eat whatever it can. I grew up on the farm & ranch and no rancher I ever met tried to hand me a line of $H!+ about cow-friendly coyotes. Seperate a cow from its calf and record the sounds made by the calf, being careful not to record the bellering of the cow (this is still 'fair' to the arguement, because calves get seperated and when the winds are howling you may hear only the calf - not the cow). Then take that recording out in the field and play it - see how many coyotes respond. Again, just my $0.02, but take it for what it is worth - I worked my share of cattle.
Good luck & God bless,
~Scott
 
Good post, I dont have all the answers, nor have I seen it all. I shoot coyotes on a 100arce cattle ranch. I just got home from a one day hunt and killed three. Last month they were hunted hard and the two day total was 23 dead. and 65 for the month. Now the flat low country has very few but the higher harder to hunt country is holding a bunch. When I asked the goverment traper how long it would take for them to move back in. He said, about a month. Even though it is his job he also told me he sure hopes we never figure out how we can totaly get rid of them, they are just to much fun to hunt. Some thing else he told was that his supervisor told him he hopes he never kills another coyote.The state of Calif. is how trying to take a hands off attitude toward the killing of coyotes.
 
bradh good story /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
songdog, I agree with you.Unfortunatly, I am at the mercy of the theories some of these ranchers have developed or have been fed. The rest of the story about the ranch I spoke of earlier goes like this; I am to use a distressed kid goat tape that the ranch will supply, and only shoot coyotes that respond. My theory,which I kept to myself, is that coyotes(and all predators) are opportunists and will respond to anything that sounds like an easy meal,wether that prey is part of their regular diet or not. My other dilema is that I don't own any kind of e-caller. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
In the West, game populations are managed arguably fairly well. In Arizona, our human population has surged from just over a million when we first moved here to nearly 6 million. Game tags that were easy to get are now highly prized and, thanks to USO, the out of state hunters will be given even greater access. In fact, many applicants this year for multiple tags (deer, elk, antelope, sheep (!), et al) couldn't get drawn for anything, first, second or third choices. I believe this somewhat mirrors, more or less, the current or future hunting situation in many western states.

As a result varmint hunting/calling is being used increasingly as an alternative to big game hunting, much as archery, or muzzle loaders have gain added popularity for access to big game tags. While there
seems to be a balance right now, one wonders if the added pressures on varminting will eventually be controlled as well by means of tags and, perhaps, draws.

I appeciate comments on this thread but it suggests we don't have a clear picture of the role of predators that is either widely understood or accepted. As an avid coyote and bobcat hunter, mainly on public land, my approach has been "kill 'em all". If they respond to my call, I will attempt to shoot them, however, I don't call from early May to Labor Day.

I need to learn more, even after 42 years of calling, about the role of the predator in the "system".
 
We definitely dont run into farmers here in WV that like coyotes. It just doesnt happen. These good 'ol boys love their deer and turkey hunting and thus hate the yotes with a passion. We dont really have a huge farming population here, as there arent many fields in the Mountain State. The biggest farm field I have ever seen might be 50-60 acres, and it wasnt even all flat. The food for thought that I am offering here though is this... If a livestock farmer will let you hunt all the rabbits you can take, but no coyotes, then what do the coyotes eat when there arent many rabbits left??? My guess would be the livestock.

BANDIT
 
This is in direct response to the talk that a coyote won't kill a calf, not that I'm arguing, but it's something I witnessed. I got a wild hair back in the early 90's and went out to western Ne to work on a ranch (Windmill Angus, Haigler Ne.) I was driving out in the morning to check the herd, it was calving season, and I could see from a distance that this one cow was acting really strange. I couldn't see her legs or much ground around her because of a small rise between us. Eventually I crested that small rise about 75yrds from her and I seen a coyote take off on a run, and I seen that she was standing over her calf. I got up to her and the ground was shreaded in a circle around that calf, and the calf was dead from her stepping on it. You can try to argue that the coyote didn't kill the calf, to me it did. And, if the coyote hadn't been working alone there may have never been any evidence that anything even happened.

I only worked on that ranch for a year, but that one calving season there where probably 30 calves lost. It ran from finding some hair and a chewed up ear tag, to seeing a cow ready to calf on one day and the next day the cow had calved but there was no calf around. I won't say that every loss was do to predation, because I know it wasn't.

I have to also say at that time the coyote population was way out of control. I went back out less than a year later with my calling buddy, and we called at least one dog in on every stand and some stands brought in doubles and we even had one triple come running in.
 


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