Educated Coyotes, Myth, Excuse or Real

AWS

AWS

Custom Accessory Maker & Retired PM Staff
I've hunted a lot of country that is heavily called and do pretty good. One of the spots, a large wildlife area in central WA, it is nothing to see three or four groups of predator hunters on a weekend and hear other calls in the distance.

Another spot I got pulled over by a city cop early in the morning , my mountain bike was covering my license plate. We got to talking and he was telling me how hard it was to call coyotes in the area but he gave me a heads up on a couple of places to try. Everywhere I went it was like calling to virgin ears.

I hunted a ranch in CO with the owners grandson, we hunted a spot that he kills coyotes at it turned out to be a blank but he said afterwards that they never see a coyote there after the sun comes up and we got a late start. I asked if I could pick a spot to try, he said ok. We move about a half mile away and called a triple, the coyotes came from the direction of the first stand and I'm pretty sure they heard the caller on the first stand.

So are coyotes educated or just conditioned to a certain situation. By repetition you can teach a dog to sit but if you use any other word than SIT they have no idea what you want. So are coyotes conditioned to hunters doing the same thing over and over or using the same sounds/sound frequencies over and over or are they truly educated and not respond to any sound.

When I hear someone say that the coyotes won't come any closer than 400 yard to a stand, I think that the coyote is responding to the sound so he is callable but he needs to see a different scenario.

Any thoughts on the subject and you can't hurt my feelings.
 
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In my opinion its gonna be pretty hard to determine 'why' coyotes don't come in. That being said, its also my opinion that there are several factors that are more apt to cause coyotes not to come in than being educated, but being educated is one reason that sometimes coyotes don't respond to the call like we think they should.

First, there has to be coyotes in the area to hear the call to get a coyote to come to the call. Next, did the caller get into his stand undetected? Pretty hard to fool them when they already know something isn't right. Then they actually have to hear something that entices them to come whether that be the dinner bell, territorial responses, or to shake the sugar tree.

How well is the caller set up? If he can't see responding coyotes before they figure out the farce it's game over. Is the pickup parked out sight? Does the caller have a good field of view of approach routes? Especially considering the wind? I have found tracks in the snow and mud walking out after a stand where I had coyotes respond that I never saw, and I am certain there are a lot more that come check things out that I never see.

To sum it up, I guess it is my opinion that 'educated coyotes' do exist, but it's more of an excuse than an actual problem in my area. I imagine that is probably a for real issue in some places that see a lot of pressure, like close to a major population center, but in my neck of the woods I don't thinks its as big of a deal as some would make it out to be.
 
Yes coyotes can be educated. There is no doubt about it, but a person who is well versed and can read the situation can overcome that to a certain extent. There are so many factors that come into play on why a stand was dry, it is hard to say it was this one thing. The best day I have ever had calling we were calling as the game and fish were doing flights and counts for mule deer. We called and saw more coyotes in that one day than most do in an entire season. The difference? I think the flight work had the coyotes up and moving they were scattering to avoid gunning from the plane, but were still looking for an easy meal.

I have no doubt that coyotes are smart enough to associate sounds/situations with previous experiences. Sometimes they are too hungry to care?
 
Last winter,from tracks crossing roads, I knew there were 5 coyote staying(bedding during the day) in a 1/4 mile of creek. First set young male charged in at sunset. Second set another young male shot. But saw 3 others slip away down a drainage ditch. 3rd set,each about 2 weeks apart different sounds from same location. I had a friend sit in the ditch(could not convince him to take shotgun), within 5 minutes of calling all three ran his way but he only got one. 2 days later I got in very close(50 yards) from the thickest cover and used a squeaker both remaining coyote walked out and stood looking like they couldn't locate my direction, one more down, branches saved the other. They can only repeat actions that they survive, I guess that could be considered education.
 
educated or conditioned? One in the same really, IMO. And can coyotes get that way, absolutely.

We see it all the time, guys new to the game come on the internet asking for help in figuring out what is going wrong. Often times the hunter tells us that they killed a coyote the first time in on a spot, and then on his second effort a few days later had a couple show themselves and he took a poke at one as it ran by and another wouldn't come close enough for a shot, and ever since then, can't get more than a few warning barks from back in the trees. Then further digging we find out that the hunter is going to the same spot multiple times, parking in the same spot, sitting in the same spot, using the same sounds, etc., in a short period of time. It's pretty obvious to most of us that this just doesn't work.

Just no doubt that calling pressure plays a role in how coyotes respond. How much pressure it takes to make them completely un-callable is subjective. Some coyotes are quick learners, and others are just plain dumb.
 
I've run into one of those really dumb ones, using a single shot rifle I missed at 70 yards and threw up dirt near him and he ran off to the tree line, couldn't resist the call and returned, I missed again at 100 yards and he again departed to the tree line, he just had to return a third time and died at about 120 yards. I like to refer to that stand as "Suicide by Hunter". It wasn't like I was well hidden either I was sitting in front of a yucca breaking open a single shot to reload every time.
 
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Originally Posted By: songdogeducated or conditioned? One in the same really, IMO. And can coyotes get that way, absolutely.

We see it all the time, guys new to the game come on the internet asking for help in figuring out what is going wrong. Often times the hunter tells us that they killed a coyote the first time in on a spot, and then on his second effort a few days later had a couple show themselves and he took a poke at one as it ran by and another wouldn't come close enough for a shot, and ever since then, can't get more than a few warning barks from back in the trees. Then further digging we find out that the hunter is going to the same spot multiple times, parking in the same spot, sitting in the same spot, using the same sounds, etc., in a short period of time. It's pretty obvious to most of us that this just doesn't work.

Just no doubt that calling pressure plays a role in how coyotes respond. How much pressure it takes to make them completely un-callable is subjective. Some coyotes are quick learners, and others are just plain dumb.



Old man, it is sometimes painful to read the stupidity on this forum. Its nice to read something that makes sense once and a while coming from someone who has killed more than 10 coyotes in their lives. Carry on Old Timer.
 
That ain't nuthin" AWS, I videoed a guy who missed the same coyote 11 or 12 times before connecting, and that coyote pretty much stood there the whole time.

It's on one of the Verminator videos, just don't remember which video it's on, incase someone doesn't believe it.
 
Honestly, it is a wonder coyote hunters ever kill a coyote with how good their nose and ears are. Most tenured coyote hunters will say if you spot a coyote while driving down the road and they see you, there isn't a great chance you will call that coyote in.

Well, on any given day how many vehicles does a coyote see or hear unless they are in an extremely remote area? The sound a vehicle makes going down a gravel or two track road can often be heard for miles on calm days. I have seen coyotes get very nervous when planes are flying as already mentioned, so how many planes does a coyote hear in a day, and the list goes on.

People who say a coyote can't be educated should just watch a farmer. I was raised on a farm and can say I have seen coyotes pay absolutely no attention to tractors and other farm machinery. Then fast forward to deer season, and as soon as any vehicle starts to slow, the coyotes have their tails between their legs and they are moving as fast as possible. Call it education, call it conditioning, but a coyote knows what to be afraid of, or they die really quick.
 
Originally Posted By: Kirsch on any given day how many vehicles does a coyote see or hear unless they are in an extremely remote area? The sound a vehicle makes going down a gravel or two track road can often be heard for miles on calm days.


true, true. i know many well traveled county roads where i can park in a low spot or behind a hill, get out, cross a fence, walk 30 yards, sit in front of a bush and call coyotes.
 
Here along the southern border coyotes have a steady stream so Border patrol atv's, 4x4's and airplanes zooming down every trail and cowpath. I've been stopped as many as 4 times in a day by the border patrol while coyote hunting. They get real curious about a white van parked out in the middle of nowhere. Plus this country also grazes a lot of cattle and ranchers a continuously checking fences, tanks and mineral blocks. Even really remote coyotes have a lot of contact with vehicle traffic.

I always try and hide a vehicle, more than once I've had them come in from the wrong direction or over a hill instead of down the valley and spot my truck. Suprisingly most don't book out but just turn and work away and a fast walk. This year I have a secret weapon and will reveal it when I know it works.
 
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Originally Posted By: songdogeducated or conditioned? One in the same really, IMO. And can coyotes get that way, absolutely.

I have watched deer, watching coyotes about 75yds away. The deer are on alert, but don't run.

Now, I stand up 200yds away, and both the coyotes and the deer run like he@@. They both 'know' a human is dangerous at long distances. Educated, or conditioned?

I was cleaning a sxs shotgun after a bird hunt,with the shotgun broken apart, and my Brittany was laying at my feet. When the barrels pointed at him, he looked at me, lowered his head and ears, then slunk to my other side. To prove I saw what I saw, I again pointed them at him, and he slunk to my other side, away from the barrels. I would never do that again.

But, was he educated or conditioned?

Tell your neighbors dog to 'Sit', and see if the dog listens to you. Some dogs listen to any human while other dogs only listen to their master.

I believe that a coyote that was called in with an e-caller, say,with Cottontail in Distress sounds, was shot at and missed, will not respond to that sound, from that ecall manufacturer again, at least for a long while. The same is true for me with handcalls, so I will switch calls when hunting the territory of a coyote that we missed.

One things certain, they are sharp critters.
 
Originally Posted By: AWS This year I have a secret weapon and will reveal it when I know it works.

please tell me you are not going to dress your van up as a cow. please.
 
AWS i think that would double your encounters with BP if you painted a green strip trying to imitate a BP truck. Just my opinion.

I know plenty of guys who hunt more open country and a lot of them have bought a camo cover or burlap sack cover to hide their trucks and they say it works really well. Me personally I don’t see the need for it, last weekend we killed 18 and we called in so many coyotes that came in from behind us that we would leave somebody near the truck on certain stands to get any back door coyotes and he ended killing 5 directly behind us. He said he saw coyotes come onto the road and use the road to close the distance to the call then bolt into to the desert when they got closer to the call.

I guess it depends on where you are hunting but the coyotes were pretty dumb where we were and it was all public land. Areas like Utah with a bounty I’m sure once they see a truck stop or a truck period the turn and burn but the pressure in Nm isn’t as bad as it used to be in the previous years.
 
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Coyotes get educated for sure. Smart ones you never see as they circle down wind at 400 yards and catch your scent.

Electronic calls call are ran by humans that get in a rut to play the same sounds, over and over again.

So, if it is legal in your area, use an attractant and or try and mask your scent best you can...if you are so inclined. Hunting in a remote area with high numbers trumps all, and we did not bathe for 7-10 days on these hunts, smoked Swisher Sweet Cigars with very high numbers killed.

Learning to use various howlers in the coyote language can de frag a coyotes brain...they have no defense other than their nose and eyes to spot you with.

Coyotes have definite patterns of how and when they will move or hunt.

A huge factor is that 60% of the coyotes that a guy kills are yearlings.

If you are hunting in areas with educated coyotes that will not respond to calls, then hunting with howlers is the way to go.
 
Originally Posted By: Kirsch
People who say a coyote can't be educated should just watch a farmer. I was raised on a farm and can say I have seen coyotes pay absolutely no attention to tractors and other farm machinery.

I usually don't have my rifle with me in the tractor but I've found they don't care about it all if your just going about your thing. I've even stopped the tractor and watched within a 100 yards of the tractor, as long as I just stop they don't care, the second I idle down the throttle or they see me walking around, they are gone.
 
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Originally Posted By: KirschHonestly, it is a wonder coyote hunters ever kill a coyote with how good their nose and ears are. Most tenured coyote hunters will say if you spot a coyote while driving down the road and they see you, there isn't a great chance you will call that coyote in.

Well, on any given day how many vehicles does a coyote see or hear unless they are in an extremely remote area? The sound a vehicle makes going down a gravel or two track road can often be heard for miles on calm days. I have seen coyotes get very nervous when planes are flying as already mentioned, so how many planes does a coyote hear in a day, and the list goes on.

People who say a coyote can't be educated should just watch a farmer. I was raised on a farm and can say I have seen coyotes pay absolutely no attention to tractors and other farm machinery. Then fast forward to deer season, and as soon as any vehicle starts to slow, the coyotes have their tails between their legs and they are moving as fast as possible. Call it education, call it conditioning, but a coyote knows what to be afraid of, or they die really quick.

Hey sometimes we make daylight stands right out of our "portable blind" and they come right up to the truck before they suffer from lead poisoning. Other times we could be doing walk outs camoed head to toe and they hang up out there. Grizz
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Your household "mut" can recognize and remember over 500 sounds. My dog would go crazy even before the girlfriend would even drive onto the street. Yeah, a coyote can associate the sound of your specific truck after a close call.
 


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