FBI 10mm,.45acp, .40s/w, 9mm test

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bluealtered

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Ok, i ran across this the other morning and thought i would share it since someone is always wondering what side arm to carry while hunting. This test shows what the penetration factor is for the rds. tested. Hopefuly this will help you decide on the right cal. pistol. Go to www.pointshooting.com/fbi10mm.htm

If you decide you need a 10mm, get a full size frame, it does have recoil. One choice i like is the e.a.a. witness, you can convert it to almost any cal. just by buying their conversion kit. blue
 
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Interesting. What was the reason they chose to use the lightest bullet generally available for the .45 ACP, the 185, rather than a 200, 225 or 230, if they were interested in something other than just skewing the results in favor of the 10MM?
 
Here is a link to the history of what cause law enforcement and the FBI to re-think the use of 9mm and 38 special.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout

A little other history that was lost.
The 10mm is too stout for many shooters in stress conditions as well as the full size frame is too large for many people's hands so the move to the "10mm lite/10mm FBI" with its need for less case capacity had it shortened and was adopted by many agencies as the 40S&W.(short and weak)

Masad Ayoob put it best when he talked about defensive handguns.
When choosing a defensive handgun get the largest caliber with the heaviest bullt you can reliably and controllably shoot accurately.

To some that is a 22lr, others it is a 38 special or 9mm. To many that is the 45ACP. Some perfer the 44 Mag.

My choice for almost 20 years, full house loads of 10mm.
BTW the Glock 20 is waaay more controlable than the S&W or Delta Elites as far as recoil and snap from full house 10mm loads.
 
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Interesting. What was the reason they chose to use the lightest bullet generally available for the .45 ACP, the 185, rather than a 200, 225 or 230, if they were interested in something other than just skewing the results in favor of the 10MM?



Small stature shooters with heavy bullets have recoil problems. The original FBI tests used all bullets and bullet weights. They chose bullets that every FBI member could handle. That is also the reason that they down loaded the 10mm so much.

Full house heavy 10mm loads weren't used in the test either.
 
My personal preference is the 40 "short and weak". My loads with 155 gr. gold dots generate just over 500 ft/lb. muzzle energy, which not only makes it legal here for deer, but makes it very effective at stopping most things that size. I have some 10mm guns too, and run a 155 gr. gold dot out of a S&W 610 @1489 fps. Turns out, the bullet can't quite hold up to that speed, and loses a petal once in a while in water jug tests. What surprised me, was running my .40 loads in the 610: they were over 1400 fps out of the wheel gun, while running 1225 fps out of different autos. Given that .40 brass can be found for the taking, or bought at scrap price, whats not to like about it, the way it performs? I do run the brass through a sizemaster, to take the case back to factory specs, otherwise, nothing special. (and most guys don't bother with that step) Just my 2 cents worth.
 
Get a 357 Sig and it will solved most of the problem you encounter. I still belive the best Law Enforcement round is the 357 Magnum
 
Way to many recent advancements in ammo technology have been introduced since the late 80's and therefore make all these FBI studies "out dated". I have yet to see some testing performed in 2005 or later.
 
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Way to many recent advancements in ammo technology have been introduced since the late 80's and therefore make all these FBI studies "out dated". I have yet to see some testing performed in 2005 or later.



Agreed, that is old news and old data.
 
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Interesting. What was the reason they chose to use the lightest bullet generally available for the .45 ACP, the 185, rather than a 200, 225 or 230, if they were interested in something other than just skewing the results in favor of the 10MM?



Small stature shooters with heavy bullets have recoil problems. The original FBI tests used all bullets and bullet weights. They chose bullets that every FBI member could handle. That is also the reason that they down loaded the 10mm so much.

Full house heavy 10mm loads weren't used in the test either.



That's an interesting theory for the reason behind the test. But, do you really think that there's that much difference between the recoil of a .45 ACP using a 185, a 200 or a 230 grain bullet, if loaded to max pressure, that a "small statures" meaning female, couldn't handle the heavier bulleted loads properly?

My suspicion is that, like many of these gov't sponsored tests, they were constructed with a desired outcome already in mind.
 
The NC highway patrol recently "tested" for new service pistols & adopted the .357 Sig. Just for FYI. I'm not sure all of the criteria, but was told the guns were tested through different media including clothing & windshields.

The only thing to do now is carry a .45, 40, 10, and .357S /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Might want to get a bigger belt /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif
 
That all came about after the Miami shootout. The move to the 10 mm was due directly to that. But then to be politically correct the feds went to the 40, just the mention of the 45 ACP had some of the smaller agents and females flintching. A lot of the throry of stopping ability back then was a reliance on velocity, that has been proven to be only half correct. Both speed and bullet wt have a function in a bullets stopping ability. For years I have prefered the 45 ACP, while on paper the 230 grain bullets are to slow to be reliable stoppers in fact they are as reliable as any handgun and more so than many.
 
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Get a 357 Sig and it will solved most of the problem you encounter. I still belive the best Law Enforcement round is the 357 Magnum


i have to agree with you on the 357sig. IMHO it is the ultimate auto load for just about anything, with the exception of very large game animals. it is designed to feed 100% of the time it is fast and there are a wide variety of loads out there. it will do anything the 40/45acp/9mm/45gap will do and you can load it for whatever you need. i bought mine to be a carry gun/predator close range gun/home defense gun/backup while hunting black bear with my bow. i can load it down to shoot yotes with 125gr or load it hot with hornady 147gr for badguys.
 
I love my Glock in 357 Sig.

357glock3.jpg
 
If you're willing to put in the time with it, you just can't beat the 10mm. You can also "load tailor" from an FBI load (great for simple defense), a full house load (check out DoubleTap Ammo), or a light fast 135 if you want a bunny-back-up for flat distance shooting. IMHO it's the most underrated pistol cartrige out there - it's simply so versatile.

Glock is great. I have a Witness Match - jury is still out on it.

If not a 10mm, I agree on the .357 sig. Great Caliber, especially when loaded to the 1400+ fps levels (Cor-Bon, Double Tap) - then it matches the .357 Magnum LE load. And you can swap in a .40 S&W barrel for practice!
 
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