Federal Forest Violations Tickets

FALFire

New member
Hey guys, a friend of mine was cited for shooting in the National Forest up near North Bend Washington by a Federal Forest worker... not a law enforcement officer.

Has any got any info on how to deal with contesting this type of ticket. It is not an RCW type ticket, it falls under the CFR TITLE 36 codes. Federal Forests laws are so vague and the info we have found is very mutteled in beaurocratic b.s it's difficult to make heads or tails of it.

Any help is a good thing.

Thanks
 
I don't know, but I talked to two different people this past week that got tickets on the National Forests. One was for shooting his rifle at a target on the end of a dead end road, and the other guy got one for not wearing a seat belt on a forest service road. Both tickets were $100.00.
 
He and his buddy were on a dead end spur road and the forest tech didn't even see them shooting, so he says, but they got popped for shooting live plants, shooting on a road, and shooting in a camp. $250 for the each of them. So-far none of the Forest people can tell them how to contest it either, they just say to pay it.
 
If it goes to court, it is federal court and not some JP court. It is cheaper to just pay the fines.

Hunting is allowed on most federal lands (National Forests), but target shooting is not. When it is, it is usually confined to designated shooting areas (ranges).
 
Your buddy may be screwed! A friend of mine got a ticket on National Forest one time; not because of anything he did, but because of the company he was keeping. The FS cop that wrote the ticket would have let him go, but he wanted the other guy bad. Couldn't let one go and site the other, so.... Had to hire an attorney. Federal court before a Federal Judge. No jury trial. His word against the FS cop. Bottom line; a fine (suspended) and a year's probation. No hunting during that year.
 
Quote:the other guy got one for not wearing a seat belt on a forest service road.

Now that my friends is a cheesy ticket! As a long time LEO who has worked his share of traffic in the early years, I can't imagine writing a guy a ticket for driving down a Forest Service road without a seatbelt on. In fact, thinking about it, I wonder if that's a federal violation? Most states and many muni's have seat belt laws and ordinances, however, do the fed's actually have a law regarding seat belts on the books? If not, the Forest Service Enforcement Officer must have written that on the state code and charged the person through state court in whatever county courthouse the "crime" was comitted in. In that case, you most likely could get a break from the local county prosecutor. One of the F.S. guys visits our office quite frequently and I'll tell you right now he's exactly the type to write such a piddly citation. He bragged this past Friday something about "I'd write my own mother a ticket on a slow day." [beeep], compared to most law enforcement, everyday for him is a slow day, apples to apples. I only hoped they all weren't like that. Maybe I was wrong?
rolleyes.gif
 
The Forest Service and the BLM have been taken over by the liberals. Do not expect any reasonable behavior from them. These federal employed liberals are determined to rid all public land of the public.

Jack
 
Hi, I have a couple friends that work for the forest service. A couple years ago when this district got a new ranger transplanted from california they went on an introduction hike as a group with him. They came upon a camp where no one was around. The new ranger just went in the tent and tromped around. When he came out he had a blue tarp in his hand and stated we are going to outlaw these, only green and brown will be allowed. Seems like there might even be a few laws hes not aware of. Very Lucky I wasn't in that tent.
 
I think there is a federal seatbelt law now. Seems to me I saw a bunch of commercials about it some months back.

As for National forest shooting, on most every entrance to any of our national forests out here there are HUGE signs stating "no target shooting".
 
Well if it's a ticket, then there has to be a date to appear and an address, so you can appear and contest the ticket if you choose. Some goverment employees have limited powers to issue citations for certain offenses.

I've not dealt with the Feds much, but those guys that I know who have, say those judges don't play or care what we think.
 
Most forest employees can right tickets they have fpo and leo, the leo's are the gun toters. The fpo's tickets are the same as the leo's. There should have been a place at the bottom of the ticket that explained how much to pay and where to send it, or what court and where. Around here on the forest you can still shoot as long as your of the road so many feet and not around any structures. The f.s. is going to he-- sounds to me like this fpo was just looking for an excuse to right a ticket
 
Don't throw in the towel yet! Fed law states the it is illegal to shoot from, across, or along side and road built by federal dollars. Even the out skid road 50 years old with trees growing out of it. AS far as shooting plants, well I think that worker was smoking some of his own plants. That worker was more than likely a NW Liberal tree hugger. Most to them work for the state and feds here in the north west.

My wife got a ticket here from a fed for the shooting from along a crossed the road law here a couple of years ago. And in the state book it says that it has to be maintained by public dollars. Well you couldn't get a car a crossed the bridge, so we figured we were good till Mr. Ass showed up and wrote her a 250.00 tick and took my reloads. He keep me the wife and the son in the poring rain for a half hour, my daughter was 3 and crying in the tuck. He would let my wife or son in the truck due to I had cased guns in the rear. He had his weapons drawn half the time, freaked my kids and wife out. When he came to give the wife the ticket he ask to see her hunter safety card and her hunting license. (Deer hunting didn't start for 2 weeks.) Up until that point I was Mr. Nice, That is when I lost it.

Well we went to federal court and told the truth of what happened and the prosecuting attorney and the judge dropped the fine and all we had to pay was the 50.00 court fee. The couple of people before us had there fines reduced. Also in the national forest in the SW Washington you can target shoot. Don't throw in the towel just yet!
 
Around here I have never seen any sign on federal land saying you cant shoot. I have seen lots of people do it and have done it myself. I have had forest service leo stop and talk while shooting and never said a word about it.
 
The ticket should reference the chapter, paragraph, and subsection of the actual violation. And if the one recorded on the ticket is incorrect or absent for the description of the offense, the whole thing can be tossed on ambiguity. You just have to go before the judge to have that happen though. I've had a couple friends that some years ago that went through problems with forest workers that suffered from headus-up-assus syndrome that didn't like the idea of off-roaders exploring the back-country trails in trucks with tires larger than the forest workers egos.
 
Thanks for all the replies gent's. I really don't know what my friend intends to do with the situation at this point. I would rather him fight it but I know he is on a real tight schedule. He starts the Police academy in a few weeks so time is going to be tight for the next 6 months.

I really don't like the idea of a bunch of part time forest service people running around with ticket books handing these things out like candy.

I have had a difficult time trying to find out what authority they really have. I guess from what I now know, if I'm approached by a forest service worker and not a LAW Enforcement Officer, I know I don't have to talk to them. They can't arrest me for not speaking to them since they have no real arrest powers.
 
I don't like the federal LEOs- (I do know one I like though). The few I have met I have considered to be a pain to deal with. I have no problems with the State Wildlife Officers here in Ohio, and all the ones I have met treat you like you should be treated-with respect. A couple years ago I went and got my hunting license on opening day of dove season. The clerk told me that the federal HIP certification had been done away with, and a call to the local state district wildlife office got me the same answer from one of the workers there. I went out dove hunting that evening, and an hour of dove hunting had landed me 8 birds. At this point I see a truck coming back the lane toward me. The county wildlife officer steps out and asked to see my license, and then says that I have a problem-I have no HIP cert. on my card. I told him that the store clerk I bought the license from had told me it had been done away with, and then I got the same answer from the district office when called. He just told me not to worry about it, and took the name of the store and said he'd make sure the employees at the distict office got corrected. I of course thanked him for not citing me, and he told me to just be glad that a federal officer hadn't checked me because I would have been cited no matter what I said. Some of these federal officers seem to have a problem with over size egos, and that's why I will be going to work with one of the local law enforcement offices when I get out of the academy.

There ain't much that can be done about the ticket. It will probably cost more to fight it than to just pay it. I don't know how the federal judges are, but I fought a speeding ticket here in county court a few months ago and got the fine reduced to ten dollars+court costs from just a fine of 100 dollars+court costs. The deputy that cited me said he had clocked me at 73 in a 55 at such and such intersection. I told him he had the wrong guy. He cited me for the violation-I knew he was wrong because I hadn't driven through that intersection, but I had entered onto the state highway farther down (I figure I matched the vehicle he was after) and was pulled over 2.5 miles down the road. I appeared in court on the date written on the citation, but found out that I was assigned the wrong date-2nd mistake, then the court clerk told me the deputy was supposed to have contacted me to tell me about the screw up-that of course never happened. At that point I was pretty mad, but kept my composure during my actual court appearance. I figure the deputy was mad at me for 'arguing' my case on the side of the road. The lesson I learned out of that case is to just take the ticket, and go fight it in court.
I don't know if your buddy deserved the ticket, but it sure stinks to get when you were not breaking the law-well I was driving just under 60 though, and if that would have been what I got cited for I would have just paid the ticket.
ZP
 
I've known this guy for a few years now and he is worse than I am about checking on the legality of being somewhere new just to prevent this type of thing happening. Like I said earlier the person that cited him and his buddy is not even a LEO just a forest worker in a tan uniform with Forestry patches on the sleeve.

I agree, it may be easier to just pay the ticket and move on, but it erks me that the government has allowed this type of communistic behavior to play out.
 
GC- the Forest Service LEO's have been writing speeding tickets around here, to go along with the seat belt tickets. I see no reason for a forest service leo to even have a radar detector. There's plenty of other stuff for him to be doing.
 
This particular Forest Service guy I'm speaking of does something very similar too. On a long straight stretch of a highway near a very, very, small town there is a "burn out" strip that the kids take their hotrods out and turn the tires over buring rubber, goofing around. Pretty harmless stuff and as far as I'm aware of nobody has done anything to get anyone hurt. The Highway Patrol and Sheriff's know about the place and keep a good eye on it. Usually they stop the kids and send them packing with a verbal warning. The F.S. Officer has some jurisdiction because one side of the Mark Twain National Forest borders the highway. He sets up and catches the kids then writes tickets, impounds vehicles, makes arrest for whatever he can, ect... My contention...if the Sheriff's and Highway Patrol are handling the "situation", the FS person should stay in the woods and leave the blacktop alone. It's sort of odd, he manhandles the kids, yet, there is a large campground on a lake nearby that is surrounded by FS property. During the summer months this campground will get hundreds of people per weekend from out of town and has gained a reputation as a party spot. Lot's of drinking, dope, fights, ect... The Sheriff's guys I know say they seldom see the FS Officer in there working. Things that make you go hummmm.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
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