mattwehrly
New member
Can you reload fire formed .223 brass with just neck sizing for a ar15 or does it need to be full length sized. This brass is from this gun. I have heard it needs to be resized to cycle in a semi auto????
fire formed brass for AR? yes or no?
- Thread starter mattwehrly
- Start date
mattwehrly
New member
I have the full length die already. was thinking of buying a neck sizing die.
OldTurtle
Moderator - Deceased
If you can get by with neck sizing for a semi auto, you are luckier than I am and I'd like to know your secret... I shoot four ARs and have to FL size all my brass...
I do neck size for my bolts with great success for 3-4 reloads and even them the brass has to be FL sized to bump back the shoulders...
I do neck size for my bolts with great success for 3-4 reloads and even them the brass has to be FL sized to bump back the shoulders...
deaddogwalkin
Active member
I with OT I have never been able to just get by with neck sizing. I full length size all ar brass. You might be able to particial resize but if you are doing it just FL all of it then you won't have as many problems. Nothing more upsetting than trying to chamber a round and it doesn't go or even worse trying to get the shell extracted after it has gone partically chambered and it is stuck. The worse is when it has been fired and rips the back of the case off and leaves the rest. Never had it happen but I have heard it is nasty.
mattwehrly
New member
Ok thats what i had heard. thanks, saved me some money and some labor keeping my brass and the other used casings separate.
SodakJim
New member
Originally Posted By: OldTurtleIf you can get by with neck sizing for a semi auto, you are luckier than I am and I'd like to know your secret... I shoot four ARs and have to FL size all my brass...
I do neck size for my bolts with great success for 3-4 reloads and even them the brass has to be FL sized to bump back the shoulders...
The secret is as follows; but keep in mind that it is not a workable method for everyone.
1. Keep all the brass for one AR-15 segregated after fire-forming.
2. Neck size with a dedicated bushing-bump neck die like the Hornady Match Grade bushing neck die. This die has to be precisely set to maintain .0015 to .002 headspace clearance. Depending on your load, chamber, etc. the shoulder may or may not be bumped each time it is resized but it must be set to make sure the minimum clearance is maintained. If your using the same die for multiple AR-15s, it won't be practical to go though the neck sizing die set up each time for each rifle. If you have several ARs the dedicated neck sizing die for each gets expensive and more complicated.
3. A stout buffer spring like the Tubb CS flat wire spring may be needed to insure the bolt stays shut long enough for the chamber pressure to drop to a lower pressure before the bolt opens. This way the case body diameter is not blown out larger than the chamber diameter. If you can re-chamber an empty fired case without it sticking when you try to eject it, you should be OK with the stock buffer spring.
4. Close attention to lubing the inside case neck is important to prevent stretching the shoulder up and upsetting the headspace clearance. An oversize expander will cause the same problem.
This routine is definitely NOT for everyone, but you wanted to know the "Secret". Myself, I never FL resize after the first fire forming and many of my cases last 20 full power reloadings. This method works even better in bolt rifles.
I do neck size for my bolts with great success for 3-4 reloads and even them the brass has to be FL sized to bump back the shoulders...
The secret is as follows; but keep in mind that it is not a workable method for everyone.
1. Keep all the brass for one AR-15 segregated after fire-forming.
2. Neck size with a dedicated bushing-bump neck die like the Hornady Match Grade bushing neck die. This die has to be precisely set to maintain .0015 to .002 headspace clearance. Depending on your load, chamber, etc. the shoulder may or may not be bumped each time it is resized but it must be set to make sure the minimum clearance is maintained. If your using the same die for multiple AR-15s, it won't be practical to go though the neck sizing die set up each time for each rifle. If you have several ARs the dedicated neck sizing die for each gets expensive and more complicated.
3. A stout buffer spring like the Tubb CS flat wire spring may be needed to insure the bolt stays shut long enough for the chamber pressure to drop to a lower pressure before the bolt opens. This way the case body diameter is not blown out larger than the chamber diameter. If you can re-chamber an empty fired case without it sticking when you try to eject it, you should be OK with the stock buffer spring.
4. Close attention to lubing the inside case neck is important to prevent stretching the shoulder up and upsetting the headspace clearance. An oversize expander will cause the same problem.
This routine is definitely NOT for everyone, but you wanted to know the "Secret". Myself, I never FL resize after the first fire forming and many of my cases last 20 full power reloadings. This method works even better in bolt rifles.
chefpierre
New member
I have a turret press, and only one set of dies do not come out my fl rcbs 223 die set. I do not have any problems with these and it shoots very well.
buckhalljr
New member
That question has been around for a long time, and the answer is yes, no, maybe, and probably not.
Just to many variables from one rifle to another, different brands and lots of brass, different powders and primers leave varying amounts and type of residue in the chamber, everybody cleans and maintains their rifles differently, etc.
I have two AR 15 in .223. One is a custom rifle built by Dan C_rey, and is used for predator hunting, and shooting little groups on paper. I have four different lots of brass for this rifle that has all the prep work done except neck turning. I use the Lee Collet Die for neck sizing. This die does not have any type of expander so any case stretching from pulling an expander through neck is eliminated. After 3 or 4 firings I will use a Redding shoulder bump die (does not have expander) to make sure I don't have any chambering problems.
The other rifle is what I call my fighting gun. It ABSOLUTELY has to go bang, cycle, and properly chamber a fresh round, everytime I pull the trigger. All ammo loaded for this rifle is full length resized and I use the Lee Factory Crimp Die after seating the bullet.
Just to many variables from one rifle to another, different brands and lots of brass, different powders and primers leave varying amounts and type of residue in the chamber, everybody cleans and maintains their rifles differently, etc.
I have two AR 15 in .223. One is a custom rifle built by Dan C_rey, and is used for predator hunting, and shooting little groups on paper. I have four different lots of brass for this rifle that has all the prep work done except neck turning. I use the Lee Collet Die for neck sizing. This die does not have any type of expander so any case stretching from pulling an expander through neck is eliminated. After 3 or 4 firings I will use a Redding shoulder bump die (does not have expander) to make sure I don't have any chambering problems.
The other rifle is what I call my fighting gun. It ABSOLUTELY has to go bang, cycle, and properly chamber a fresh round, everytime I pull the trigger. All ammo loaded for this rifle is full length resized and I use the Lee Factory Crimp Die after seating the bullet.
SodakJim
New member
Originally Posted By: buckhalljr
The other rifle is what I call my fighting gun. It ABSOLUTELY has to go bang, cycle, and properly chamber a fresh round, everytime I pull the trigger. All ammo loaded for this rifle is full length resized and I use the Lee Factory Crimp Die after seating the bullet.
If it has to go bang, cycle, etc, You should not be using anyone's reloads. We all try to achieve ammo that is dead nuts reliable but anyone can make a mistake. There are even bad lots of factory ammo but you don't see the military using reloaded ammo under battle conditions. Reliability is not all in the ammo. Weapon condition and proper maintenance enter into the equation somewhere, along with several other variables.
In the end, you do all you can with the equipment and components you have selected and take your chances from there. I have not had a functional ammo-related problem in my last 3,000 reloads but that doesn't mean that it's more or less reliable than the same amount of mil-spec ammo. If your satisfied that your ammo is absolutely reliable in that fighting gun you should sleep well at night. Here's hoping that you never have to find out how reliable your fighting gun and ammo are in reality.
Good Luck
The other rifle is what I call my fighting gun. It ABSOLUTELY has to go bang, cycle, and properly chamber a fresh round, everytime I pull the trigger. All ammo loaded for this rifle is full length resized and I use the Lee Factory Crimp Die after seating the bullet.
If it has to go bang, cycle, etc, You should not be using anyone's reloads. We all try to achieve ammo that is dead nuts reliable but anyone can make a mistake. There are even bad lots of factory ammo but you don't see the military using reloaded ammo under battle conditions. Reliability is not all in the ammo. Weapon condition and proper maintenance enter into the equation somewhere, along with several other variables.
In the end, you do all you can with the equipment and components you have selected and take your chances from there. I have not had a functional ammo-related problem in my last 3,000 reloads but that doesn't mean that it's more or less reliable than the same amount of mil-spec ammo. If your satisfied that your ammo is absolutely reliable in that fighting gun you should sleep well at night. Here's hoping that you never have to find out how reliable your fighting gun and ammo are in reality.
Good Luck
buckhalljr
New member
1st .. The subject had nothing to do with factory ammo, but...
2nd .. See blurb below from recent Federal factory ammo recall notice:
Certain lots of recently manufactured 45 Auto ammunition may contain an incorrect propellant charge. Use of product from these lots may result in firearm damage and possible serious injury. DO NOT USE PRODUCT FROM THE FOLLOWING LOTS:
38X628 through 38X765
38T401 through 38T414
I have had factory .357 Mag. ammo that had to be pried out of the cylinder, factory 7mm mag. ammo that locked up the bolt so bad it took a rubber mallet to get the bolt open, several 22 LR rounds that just refused to fire, etc. Maybe I have just had more than my share of bad, unreliable factory ammo.
3rd .. I don’t use anyone’s reloads, I use mine. About 10% of every lot I load is tested (cycled through mags and fired) before it is stored for use as self defense. I recently bought 560 rounds of American Eagle Tactical AE 223 all from the same lot. I shot 60 rounds to insure me it was reliable before it got put up. The only reason I bought this was because a friend of mine sold his .223 and sold the ammo to me for 3.50/box (20 ea.). I can’t reload that cheap. Even if the brass was free.
4th .. You mentioned weapon condition and maintenance which I think was covered already.
5th .. Thanks for your concern and hopes that I never have to rely on my ammo in a real fight. I too hope that my ammo, factory or reloaded by me, is never used except to insure me that it is ready if needed.
Last.. If I don’t sleep well at night it won’t be because I’m worried about my ammo.
2nd .. See blurb below from recent Federal factory ammo recall notice:
Certain lots of recently manufactured 45 Auto ammunition may contain an incorrect propellant charge. Use of product from these lots may result in firearm damage and possible serious injury. DO NOT USE PRODUCT FROM THE FOLLOWING LOTS:
38X628 through 38X765
38T401 through 38T414
I have had factory .357 Mag. ammo that had to be pried out of the cylinder, factory 7mm mag. ammo that locked up the bolt so bad it took a rubber mallet to get the bolt open, several 22 LR rounds that just refused to fire, etc. Maybe I have just had more than my share of bad, unreliable factory ammo.
3rd .. I don’t use anyone’s reloads, I use mine. About 10% of every lot I load is tested (cycled through mags and fired) before it is stored for use as self defense. I recently bought 560 rounds of American Eagle Tactical AE 223 all from the same lot. I shot 60 rounds to insure me it was reliable before it got put up. The only reason I bought this was because a friend of mine sold his .223 and sold the ammo to me for 3.50/box (20 ea.). I can’t reload that cheap. Even if the brass was free.
4th .. You mentioned weapon condition and maintenance which I think was covered already.
5th .. Thanks for your concern and hopes that I never have to rely on my ammo in a real fight. I too hope that my ammo, factory or reloaded by me, is never used except to insure me that it is ready if needed.
Last.. If I don’t sleep well at night it won’t be because I’m worried about my ammo.