Flash Hider and Night Vision

6mm06

6mm06

Well-known member

Just curious if anyone is using a rifle with a flash hider and night vision; both tubed scopes and digitals, and how the FH affects white-out when shooting. Does anyone have videos to illustrate?

I understand that suppressors practically eliminate white-out, but to what extent do flash hiders work for that purpose? Also, if you do use a flash hider with good success, what brand and model are you using?
 
How about a flash can instead of a flash hider? Something similar to a noveski flaming pig.
Sorry, no NV to contribute to the topic.
 

I don't know anything about the Noveski, if it would eliminate or greatly lessen the white-out or not.
 
Originally Posted By: 6mm06
Just curious if anyone is using a rifle with a flash hider and night vision; both tubed scopes and digitals, and how the FH affects white-out when shooting. Does anyone have videos to illustrate?

I understand that suppressors practically eliminate white-out, but to what extent do flash hiders work for that purpose? Also, if you do use a flash hider with good success, what brand and model are you using?



6mm06, I use just an old 3 prong version I got from midway for under $10. I bought 6 or so I liked them so much. I just had a friend shoot my rifles with a few different hiders on them to look for myself. I didn't video it. I was trying to choose the best for my night vision scope with what I had on hand. I recently found this test also that may interest you.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.thetrutha...r-shootout/amp/

And surprising enough the winner was a 3 prong device. I only tested a few that I had on hand and got lucky I guess. But I didn't pay that amount for the winner either. I'll try to find the one from midway I bought and post a link.

ETA: I looked on midway and couldn't find them anymore. I bought them about 5 years ago I would guess. But they were the same design as the military used to put on the m16 I was told. Before they went to the birdcage design. It's just a simple 3 prong device. I saw some name brand ones on midway, but they want a fortune. I paid I think like $7 each. If you want I could send you one for free to have. I use it on a d760 scope. Just pm me your address and I'll get it mailed out.
 
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Willy,

That is a very kind gesture of the offer of a flash hider. I can't believe you purchased it so cheap. I will send you an e-mail with my address. If it doesn't work for my night vision, I can return it to you. If I keep it I can compensate you in some manner.

I think I saw the video in your link earlier and found that the JP Enterprise flash hider seemed to perform the best in the tests with flash suppression. It is a 3-prong too.

Is the flash hider you have timed in some way, or do you have one of the prongs facing on top of the barrel?



 
I have been shooting at night with 3rd gen night vision since 2002. I have not seen yet any flash hider made that will stop the tube from blinking out. The higher the caliber or the more powerful the worse it gets. Even with a 22 magnum or 17HMR where you really cant see much if any "flash" at night with your naked eye, the tube will still blink out for a second. The only thing I have ever been able to see bullet impact with {and this is on a 22 magnum} is a full blown suppressor. The Noveske pig can thing wont do it, it has to be a baffled suppressor and even then, again, I am shooting a 22 magnum...go up to a 223 with a suppressor and maybe, but I doubt it. One other thing, if you are using a infrared illuminator you will also get a white out due to the smoke reflecting the infrared at the muzzle. The suppressor I use is like 14 inches long and 1 1/4" in diameter so it has some "delay" in the lit up smoke to allow me to see the impact, but immediately it still turns white for a second unless the wind is blowing pretty good.
 
Originally Posted By: msincI have been shooting at night with 3rd gen night vision since 2002. I have not seen yet any flash hider made that will stop the tube from blinking out. The higher the caliber or the more powerful the worse it gets. Even with a 22 magnum or 17HMR where you really cant see much if any "flash" at night with your naked eye, the tube will still blink out for a second. The only thing I have ever been able to see bullet impact with {and this is on a 22 magnum} is a full blown suppressor. The Noveske pig can thing wont do it, it has to be a baffled suppressor and even then, again, I am shooting a 22 magnum...go up to a 223 with a suppressor and maybe, but I doubt it. One other thing, if you are using a infrared illuminator you will also get a white out due to the smoke reflecting the infrared at the muzzle. The suppressor I use is like 14 inches long and 1 1/4" in diameter so it has some "delay" in the lit up smoke to allow me to see the impact, but immediately it still turns white for a second unless the wind is blowing pretty good.



Are your night vision scopes autogated?
 
hey 6mm,
I cannot weigh in on the flash hider per say. On my 223 with simrad, if I have to run it without suppressor there is a decent flash on it at night. Now, I do not notice it while firing. However, last season I took a buddy out and let him use it while I was running my primary night gun. We were about 10 ft away and a dog came in on us. It was a slight angle towards his side. I took shot and missed. Dog took off and I was trailing him for follow up, about that time my buddy shot. The flash from it made mine auto gate and I was done. I lost the dog after that. He was at enough angle, that I picked flash up even though he was out of my FOV.

Long and short of what I am thinking is i would assume the flash hider wouldn't affect the shooter, but that's my guess.
 
Originally Posted By: UndrcoverrednekDoes putting the ir light out near the muzzle at 6 or 9 o'clock help reduce or eliminate the ir reflection off muzzle smoke?

On the particular rifle I have used it on (Bergara 308), I don't have the option of mounting it there. So the verdict is out on that one.
 

Originally Posted By: Smokin250hey 6mm,......Long and short of what I am thinking is i would assume the flash hider wouldn't affect the shooter, but that's my guess.

Thanks. Not sure if a good flash hider will help with that problem or not. I plan to try a FH soon that Willy is sending me and see if it works any better than the A2 Birdcage one that is currently on my Bushmaster.

 
Originally Posted By: UndrcoverrednekDoes putting the IR light out near the muzzle at 6 or 9 o'clock help reduce or eliminate the IR reflection off muzzle smoke?

It did not help for me. I have one rifle I tried that with. The problem is that night vision has so much gain that {as posted earlier} it will bloom to a flash that cannot even be seen with the naked eye. All of the rifles I use mine on are just 22 magnums and on the darkest night I cannot see any flash. Yet, the tube will blink out or bloom up {however you want to say it} for a second unless the rifle has a full blown suppressor on it. I have not found any flash hiders that worked for this.
As to the question about auto gated tubes...no, mine are all just straight 3rd gen with automatic brightness control and manual gain and one FLIR thermal weaponsight. No matter where the IR illuminator is located, even a remotely shined one from another location {scanner} not even near the rifle I cannot see bullet impact unless I have a suppressor on the rifle.
Flash hiders might work with a 22 lr or shorts, but for me 22 magnum and anything bigger you can pretty much forget it. I used to have a 2nd gen plus and even it bloomed.
 
Originally Posted By: 6mm06
Just curious if anyone is using a rifle with a flash hider and night vision; both tubed scopes and digitals, and how the FH affects white-out when shooting. Does anyone have videos to illustrate?

I understand that suppressors practically eliminate white-out, but to what extent do flash hiders work for that purpose? Also, if you do use a flash hider with good success, what brand and model are you using?
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1st off how large ( what Cal. ) you trying to suppress Flash with muzzle FH ? .
If it a .223 then I would use a smith'Vortex' . it is the best 3-prong FH design out there . Also Handloading the right powder will go a long way in good flash kill with Vortex . Vortex FH , It's helix-twist design prongs are most efficient in design .

We using a ( Vortex FH ) on a 16" barrel, with a Raptor6 NV mounted . testing the Vortex. We stood-off to the side with wearing PVS14's and watching as fired . It was pretty amazing seeing the little amount of residual muzzle flash . It is a good FH and never stunned this NV unit with wearing that muzzle FH .

Handloads .. I was using Vitiv. Powder Handloads with V-maxs. @ 2800 vel.. but there are other good powders for good clean Burn

( Not wearing ) ,any FH on the Muzzle . The Cleanest Burning Caliber that I ever owned was a 6BR with 22" barrel burning Vitv. powder . In the pitch black shooting 600 practice it would barely give a tiny visual hint of any Muz. flash to the eye in the dark .
.
edit add:
so basically what I am saying is that with about any 'Short Acton' rifle Round and ' Handloading ' and with the right powder charge amount . You can successfully get a excellent results wearing a smith Vortex 3-prong with using NV weapons mount or NOD .
.
 
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Index, thanks for the information.

The current rifle I have with a flash hider is a Bushmaster 223. I have heard of the Smith Vortex so may have to look into that one.

I plan to do some testing soon (video) with the digital Photon XT scope on the Bushmaster. Willy sent me a FH to try so I will be using that one too. Hopefully the video will show the story.

Thanks again for your post.
 
from personal experience the traditional 'birdcage' FH is 'real bad', it good on the dispersion/spread but No efficient Hide at all .
really all the Birdcage FH with a solid bottom-side, all it does is help on the dust print when firing from prone position ,

OK .. I remembered an old Vid. test done several years ago, and dug around on the Net to find. Also it was done with ( box factory ) .223 ammo .
So if you Handload, I for fact know that you can improve for dramatic result of flash suppression with the smith-Vortex FH . and you can use with NV .

it is about 10-minute long Vid. and does not even really start to about 3-minutes into it .
( for Vortex FH ) . Get into the Vid. about 5:20 minutes .

Flash hide Test

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Wow! That Vortex was barely visible.

I have a Dtech 6x45 AR that I really like, accurate and a real coyote-getter. It's not threaded and I have been wondering if adding a flash hider might help that one too. It would, of course, require a larger caliber FH.

I guess I still have some thinking and definitely some testing to do to determine if it's worth the effort to use a FH in conjunction with NV scopes and particularly the Photon digital.
 
Wondering if anyone with a 300 acc blk has used a photon or n v on it and what their results were? I'm under the impression that the 300 blk will burn all powder in a less than 16" barrel and if so the flash they would be getting would be less than what we get with the 223?

Just wondering out loud

Also 6mm, I'm using a 223 flash hider on my 6x45 and it works just fine.
 

Originally Posted By: Droopyfur2Also 6mm, I'm using a 223 flash hider on my 6x45 and it works just fine.

I thought a FH larger than 22 caliber would be needed. Maybe that's just for suppressors?
 


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