Well, after shooting some Hornady knockoff flight control OO Buck (Patterned worse than any other buck I have shot), and regular remington buckshot (Patterened okay). I shot WInchester Supreme XX 2.75" OO 12 pellet buck. This stuff does VERY WELL! It is probably the best patterning OO out of my Benelli M4. So I disected a round out of curiosity. I found 12 shiny copper plated OO pellets surrounded by white polyeurethane or whatnot granuals and 2 synthetic/foam-like pads under them, but not shot cup. I cut open another to be sure. Nope, no shot cup at all. What gives? THey pattern great! Is this due to no shot cup blowing through the pattern? What is the deal here, did I get a wierd lot or does the Supreme XX just not have a shot cup?
Flight Control, regular shot cup, NO shot cup!?
- Thread starter jwg223
- Start date
If the shot is hard enough, it doesn't need to be encased in a plastic shot cup. However, if you took the pellets from the Supreme XX shell and placed them inside a good plastic shotcup, with buffer (load data having been pressure tested, of course), they may have patterned even better.
The primary cause of bad patterns with big buckshot is either overchoking, underchoking or using softer lead to make the pellets.
I once cast some .31 cal. balls out of wheel weights, loaded them into a 2 3/4" hull, with a load I can no longer remember and shot them from an old Mossberg 500. The load would put 5-6 pellets inside a 15" circle at 40 yards pretty consistently. I loaded up the same load, but using 27 #4 Lawrence Brand buckshot and was lucky to get 2 or 3 hits with nearly 3 times the number of pellets, even with the best shooting choke for that size. The difference was the hardness of the pellets. The no. 4 Lawrence brand buck was very soft and would deform severely. The wheel weight .31" balls, were almost like shooting ball bearings, deforming very little traveling down the gun barrel.
The primary cause of bad patterns with big buckshot is either overchoking, underchoking or using softer lead to make the pellets.
I once cast some .31 cal. balls out of wheel weights, loaded them into a 2 3/4" hull, with a load I can no longer remember and shot them from an old Mossberg 500. The load would put 5-6 pellets inside a 15" circle at 40 yards pretty consistently. I loaded up the same load, but using 27 #4 Lawrence Brand buckshot and was lucky to get 2 or 3 hits with nearly 3 times the number of pellets, even with the best shooting choke for that size. The difference was the hardness of the pellets. The no. 4 Lawrence brand buck was very soft and would deform severely. The wheel weight .31" balls, were almost like shooting ball bearings, deforming very little traveling down the gun barrel.
GC
Well-known member
jwg,
You have discovered how finicky and unpredictable shotguns can be with various loads and chokes. That is exactly why a person must pattern different loads and chokes to determine the best combo in HIS particular gun. There's just no other way to do it... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
You have discovered how finicky and unpredictable shotguns can be with various loads and chokes. That is exactly why a person must pattern different loads and chokes to determine the best combo in HIS particular gun. There's just no other way to do it... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
Hidalgo
Well-known member
Quote:
If the shot is hard enough, it doesn't need to be encased in a plastic shot cup. However, if you took the pellets from the Supreme XX shell and placed them inside a good plastic shotcup, with buffer (load data having been pressure tested, of course), they may have patterned even better.
The primary cause of bad patterns with big buckshot is either overchoking, underchoking or using softer lead to make the pellets.
CDR is giving you good info.
The PRIMARY reason for a shotcup is to protect the shot on it's trip down the barrel. It is also used in most loads as the gas seal. If the shot comes into contact with the barrel, it will flatten and "frisbee" when it is released. Obviously, these loads either have very hard shot, or the shot size is so large that the small amount of rubbing it does while in the barrel is negligible to it's accuracy. The buffer in the shell is to keep the shot from compacting and rubbing together and causing flat spots.
There is a wealth of information about shotshells, how they actually work, and how they can be finetuned at www.ballisticproducts.com
If the shot is hard enough, it doesn't need to be encased in a plastic shot cup. However, if you took the pellets from the Supreme XX shell and placed them inside a good plastic shotcup, with buffer (load data having been pressure tested, of course), they may have patterned even better.
The primary cause of bad patterns with big buckshot is either overchoking, underchoking or using softer lead to make the pellets.
CDR is giving you good info.
The PRIMARY reason for a shotcup is to protect the shot on it's trip down the barrel. It is also used in most loads as the gas seal. If the shot comes into contact with the barrel, it will flatten and "frisbee" when it is released. Obviously, these loads either have very hard shot, or the shot size is so large that the small amount of rubbing it does while in the barrel is negligible to it's accuracy. The buffer in the shell is to keep the shot from compacting and rubbing together and causing flat spots.
There is a wealth of information about shotshells, how they actually work, and how they can be finetuned at www.ballisticproducts.com
ksyotecallr
New member
You guys are right on with the info. Ballistic products has a wealth of info on reloading shot gun shells. I'm not to sure on the bigger shot but the smaller shot sizes, the buffer will give tighter patterns. Also the pressures will go up using the buffer. Having reloaded the 10 gauge 31/2's for waterfowl prior to steelshot, ballistics had some fabulous loads worked up. The things you can do with the shotcup alone is amazing. The petals on the shotcup do protect the shot but in the case of steelshot they are thicker plastic to also protect the barrel.