FMJ on coyotes???????
- Thread starter candyman
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LionCaller
New member
Originally Posted By: TonyTebbeI've seen alot of coyotes run of with 5, 6, and 7 holes in them with FMJs. Just not an ethical round at all to use on them. Not only that, but they are very dangerous for ricoche rounds that zing off into who know's where. Tempting as they are on price, I'd avoide them.
Tony
+1
I'm with Tony on this one.
They used to be legal for predator hunting on one of the reservations I hunted many years ago. I needed a budget bullet, so I used them a few times and lost several gray fox. I'm sure I killed them - eventually - and not they way I should have - but they ran off into the thick stuff and got lost. I was putting too much time & effort into my calling days to lose that much fur. I switched back to PSP rounds. The FMJ bullets eventually were outlawed.
Mark Healy
Tony
+1
I'm with Tony on this one.
They used to be legal for predator hunting on one of the reservations I hunted many years ago. I needed a budget bullet, so I used them a few times and lost several gray fox. I'm sure I killed them - eventually - and not they way I should have - but they ran off into the thick stuff and got lost. I was putting too much time & effort into my calling days to lose that much fur. I switched back to PSP rounds. The FMJ bullets eventually were outlawed.
Mark Healy
reb8600
Retired PM Staff
Originally Posted By: TAAThey work quite well but a lot of states have outlawed their use. The military fmj bullets are engineered to fragment not just pass through as some might believe. Use them if it's legal.
They dont work very well. FMJ bullets even military are not designed to fragment.
They dont work very well. FMJ bullets even military are not designed to fragment.
I jumped a coyote once and shot him through the chest with a FMJ out of an 30/06. He ran about 40 yds and piled up. I went to where I had shot him and trailed him carefully looking for the first spot of blood. About 10yds from where I shot him I started picking up spots of blood. There in the trail was a perfect white arrow head with a spot of blood on it. He bleed profusley after 10 yds. Never shot another with them.
I don't want the bullets getting away. I want them into dust hit or no hit.
I don't want the bullets getting away. I want them into dust hit or no hit.
Ze Stallion
New member
Military FMJ are designed to TUMBEL when they come into contact with some thing, a twig, or a coyote or a person what ever. Tumbel+Spin=Barrel rolling bullet that will easily come back straight at you.
I was in the military and one of my fav. "tricks" to get more "kills" was to shoot at the edges of some thing hard like concrete. I tell you if u get even just a few of them buggers to bounce in a rocky ravine it WILL hit what ever is stupid enough to try and pass. They were zig zagging back and forth and I know nothing could make it through there with out picking up some new holes.
If you shoot at any wild life and miss the Mil. FMJ WILL bounce and where it goes after that is in GOD's hands not yours. That is why they are banned from hunting use.
FYI they were designed to wound enemy soldiers not kill them. Its part of the plan.
I was in the military and one of my fav. "tricks" to get more "kills" was to shoot at the edges of some thing hard like concrete. I tell you if u get even just a few of them buggers to bounce in a rocky ravine it WILL hit what ever is stupid enough to try and pass. They were zig zagging back and forth and I know nothing could make it through there with out picking up some new holes.
If you shoot at any wild life and miss the Mil. FMJ WILL bounce and where it goes after that is in GOD's hands not yours. That is why they are banned from hunting use.
FYI they were designed to wound enemy soldiers not kill them. Its part of the plan.
littletoes
New member
UH, I've heard this spoken before..."military bullets were made to tuble..."
PURE-D-CRAP. NO bullet is Made to tumble. It would be very inaccurate if that was true, it would have to be eccentric in either weight or balance, and that would be a shooting nightmare.
Bullets spin, due to the rifleing in the barrel, this rifleing imposes gyroscopic balance/stability that makes bullets fly "true-er". Without this, we'd be back to smooth bores and close range shots. Yea, we still get a little "spin-drift", but thats another topic.
It was believed that the military made bullets to "tumble" in 'Nam, but it was actually proof that they didn't do thier homework at the time the M-16 was developed at to twist/bullet weight/profile-ogive.
PURE-D-CRAP. NO bullet is Made to tumble. It would be very inaccurate if that was true, it would have to be eccentric in either weight or balance, and that would be a shooting nightmare.
Bullets spin, due to the rifleing in the barrel, this rifleing imposes gyroscopic balance/stability that makes bullets fly "true-er". Without this, we'd be back to smooth bores and close range shots. Yea, we still get a little "spin-drift", but thats another topic.
It was believed that the military made bullets to "tumble" in 'Nam, but it was actually proof that they didn't do thier homework at the time the M-16 was developed at to twist/bullet weight/profile-ogive.
Quapaw9300
New member
I'm thinking that if I were you I'd check your state's regs on using FMJ. Here in Arizona it's not permitted and some of the more enlightened posts by the others explain why.
Jeff
Jeff
U.P. Hunter
New member
I agree that you should check your regs. There was a reason why the Geneva Convention would only allow FMJ.
Aaron_Proffitt
New member
Originally Posted By: Ze StallionMilitary FMJ are designed to TUMBEL when they come into contact with some thing, a twig, or a coyote or a person what ever. Tumbel+Spin=Barrel rolling bullet that will easily come back straight at you.
I was in the military and one of my fav. "tricks" to get more "kills" was to shoot at the edges of some thing hard like concrete. I tell you if u get even just a few of them buggers to bounce in a rocky ravine it WILL hit what ever is stupid enough to try and pass. They were zig zagging back and forth and I know nothing could make it through there with out picking up some new holes.
If you shoot at any wild life and miss the Mil. FMJ WILL bounce and where it goes after that is in GOD's hands not yours. That is why they are banned from hunting use.
FYI they were designed to wound enemy soldiers not kill them. Its part of the plan.
Wow...all I can say . Just 'wow'.
I was in the military and one of my fav. "tricks" to get more "kills" was to shoot at the edges of some thing hard like concrete. I tell you if u get even just a few of them buggers to bounce in a rocky ravine it WILL hit what ever is stupid enough to try and pass. They were zig zagging back and forth and I know nothing could make it through there with out picking up some new holes.
If you shoot at any wild life and miss the Mil. FMJ WILL bounce and where it goes after that is in GOD's hands not yours. That is why they are banned from hunting use.
FYI they were designed to wound enemy soldiers not kill them. Its part of the plan.
Wow...all I can say . Just 'wow'.
GC
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: Aaron_ProffittOriginally Posted By: Ze StallionMilitary FMJ are designed to TUMBEL when they come into contact with some thing, a twig, or a coyote or a person what ever. Tumbel+Spin=Barrel rolling bullet that will easily come back straight at you.
I was in the military and one of my fav. "tricks" to get more "kills" was to shoot at the edges of some thing hard like concrete. I tell you if u get even just a few of them buggers to bounce in a rocky ravine it WILL hit what ever is stupid enough to try and pass. They were zig zagging back and forth and I know nothing could make it through there with out picking up some new holes.
If you shoot at any wild life and miss the Mil. FMJ WILL bounce and where it goes after that is in GOD's hands not yours. That is why they are banned from hunting use.
FYI they were designed to wound enemy soldiers not kill them. Its part of the plan.
Wow...all I can say . Just 'wow'.
LOL! The things you read on the Internet...
I was in the military and one of my fav. "tricks" to get more "kills" was to shoot at the edges of some thing hard like concrete. I tell you if u get even just a few of them buggers to bounce in a rocky ravine it WILL hit what ever is stupid enough to try and pass. They were zig zagging back and forth and I know nothing could make it through there with out picking up some new holes.
If you shoot at any wild life and miss the Mil. FMJ WILL bounce and where it goes after that is in GOD's hands not yours. That is why they are banned from hunting use.
FYI they were designed to wound enemy soldiers not kill them. Its part of the plan.
Wow...all I can say . Just 'wow'.
LOL! The things you read on the Internet...
RayB
New member
It's amazing what people repeat. The FMJ round was not designed to tumble nor was it designed to fragment. It does, however, fragment. At high velocities it breaks apart even in soft tissue. Is it an acceptable round for hunting? No, that's why it's banned in many states. Probably because lawmakers and the people who give them advice are just as uneducated as everyone else. If it isn't an effective round, why do thousands and thousands of American enemies die from it every year?
There are tons of articles and research on fmj wound channels. Do your own research before repeating what you've heard. Search m193 or ss109 fragmentation on google.
There are tons of articles and research on fmj wound channels. Do your own research before repeating what you've heard. Search m193 or ss109 fragmentation on google.
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littletoes
New member
The FBI has extensive research done on FMJ, and anyone who has done a bit of hunting on thier own know the facts.
I've read the research, and used them. As folks say above, they don't expand "readily", but any bullet will upon impact on a ROCK.....or they will at least DENT.
Sheesh....some folks kids.
Geneva Convention? Or the Convention held in Haig???? I've read both and the UNITED STATES of AMERICA signed NEITHER. So don't belive the hoke you hear about it...although we may follow the "rules" (some bullets kill too "good"), doesn't mean we signed the rull-book.
Tumble?? Any bullet has the POTENTIAL to vier off cource upon impacting something in its path....
NOBODY has designed a bullet to do so...its just the luck of the draw.
I've read the research, and used them. As folks say above, they don't expand "readily", but any bullet will upon impact on a ROCK.....or they will at least DENT.
Sheesh....some folks kids.
Geneva Convention? Or the Convention held in Haig???? I've read both and the UNITED STATES of AMERICA signed NEITHER. So don't belive the hoke you hear about it...although we may follow the "rules" (some bullets kill too "good"), doesn't mean we signed the rull-book.
Tumble?? Any bullet has the POTENTIAL to vier off cource upon impacting something in its path....
NOBODY has designed a bullet to do so...its just the luck of the draw.
Jeff Mock
Active member
The principal reason for the Military utilizing FMJ ammunition is a rather simple one. FMJ’s do NOT tumble; they do NOT fragment or any other such nonsense. The round may “keyhole”, (as any round will), if it is deflected by another object, but they most certainly do not have mythical properties.
The reasons the Military utilizes the FMJ is quite simple. If you were to shoot an enemy combatant with a “hunting type” of round, they would most certainly die.
If an enemy is shot with a FMJ round, they might die; however, it is also very likely that that enemy combatant will be wounded. If the enemy is WOUNDED, then it will require 2 to 3 of the other enemy combatants to tend to him and care for him, resulting in 3 or 4 of the enemy taken out of the fight rather than just 1 of the enemy being killed.
If a squad of 15 soldiers gets into a firefight, and one is wounded, the fighting force of 15 men will be reduced to about 11 men. If another is wounded, the fighting force is even more drastically reduced.
In short, while there are plenty of enemy combatants killed by FMJ ammunition, its principal application and design is to WOUND not kill. Not for humanitarian reasons, but to effectively reduce the capabilities, effectiveness, and mobility of enemy combatants.
The reasons the Military utilizes the FMJ is quite simple. If you were to shoot an enemy combatant with a “hunting type” of round, they would most certainly die.
If an enemy is shot with a FMJ round, they might die; however, it is also very likely that that enemy combatant will be wounded. If the enemy is WOUNDED, then it will require 2 to 3 of the other enemy combatants to tend to him and care for him, resulting in 3 or 4 of the enemy taken out of the fight rather than just 1 of the enemy being killed.
If a squad of 15 soldiers gets into a firefight, and one is wounded, the fighting force of 15 men will be reduced to about 11 men. If another is wounded, the fighting force is even more drastically reduced.
In short, while there are plenty of enemy combatants killed by FMJ ammunition, its principal application and design is to WOUND not kill. Not for humanitarian reasons, but to effectively reduce the capabilities, effectiveness, and mobility of enemy combatants.
reloadmike78
New member
Originally Posted By: Jeff MockThe principal reason for the Military utilizing FMJ ammunition is a rather simple one. FMJ’s do NOT tumble; they do NOT fragment or any other such nonsense. The round may “keyhole”, (as any round will), if it is deflected by another object, but they most certainly do not have mythical properties.
The reasons the Military utilizes the FMJ is quite simple. If you were to shoot an enemy combatant with a “hunting type” of round, they would most certainly die.
If an enemy is shot with a FMJ round, they might die; however, it is also very likely that that enemy combatant will be wounded. If the enemy is WOUNDED, then it will require 2 to 3 of the other enemy combatants to tend to him and care for him, resulting in 3 or 4 of the enemy taken out of the fight rather than just 1 of the enemy being killed.
If a squad of 15 soldiers gets into a firefight, and one is wounded, the fighting force of 15 men will be reduced to about 11 men. If another is wounded, the fighting force is even more drastically reduced.
In short, while there are plenty of enemy combatants killed by FMJ ammunition, its principal application and design is to WOUND not kill. Not for humanitarian reasons, but to effectively reduce the capabilities, effectiveness, and mobility of enemy combatants.
BINGO!! KNOCKS THIS ONE OUT OF THE PARK! END OF DISCUSSION!
The reasons the Military utilizes the FMJ is quite simple. If you were to shoot an enemy combatant with a “hunting type” of round, they would most certainly die.
If an enemy is shot with a FMJ round, they might die; however, it is also very likely that that enemy combatant will be wounded. If the enemy is WOUNDED, then it will require 2 to 3 of the other enemy combatants to tend to him and care for him, resulting in 3 or 4 of the enemy taken out of the fight rather than just 1 of the enemy being killed.
If a squad of 15 soldiers gets into a firefight, and one is wounded, the fighting force of 15 men will be reduced to about 11 men. If another is wounded, the fighting force is even more drastically reduced.
In short, while there are plenty of enemy combatants killed by FMJ ammunition, its principal application and design is to WOUND not kill. Not for humanitarian reasons, but to effectively reduce the capabilities, effectiveness, and mobility of enemy combatants.
BINGO!! KNOCKS THIS ONE OUT OF THE PARK! END OF DISCUSSION!
RayB
New member
Originally Posted By: reloadmike78Originally Posted By: Jeff MockThe principal reason for the Military utilizing FMJ ammunition is a rather simple one. FMJ’s do NOT tumble; they do NOT fragment or any other such nonsense. The round may “keyhole”, (as any round will), if it is deflected by another object, but they most certainly do not have mythical properties.
The reasons the Military utilizes the FMJ is quite simple. If you were to shoot an enemy combatant with a “hunting type” of round, they would most certainly die.
If an enemy is shot with a FMJ round, they might die; however, it is also very likely that that enemy combatant will be wounded. If the enemy is WOUNDED, then it will require 2 to 3 of the other enemy combatants to tend to him and care for him, resulting in 3 or 4 of the enemy taken out of the fight rather than just 1 of the enemy being killed.
If a squad of 15 soldiers gets into a firefight, and one is wounded, the fighting force of 15 men will be reduced to about 11 men. If another is wounded, the fighting force is even more drastically reduced.
In short, while there are plenty of enemy combatants killed by FMJ ammunition, its principal application and design is to WOUND not kill. Not for humanitarian reasons, but to effectively reduce the capabilities, effectiveness, and mobility of enemy combatants.
BINGO!! KNOCKS THIS ONE OUT OF THE PARK! END OF DISCUSSION!
How's that? Please show proof of this. I can find documented research and facts that the 5.56 mm FMJ round was developed as a light to medium caliber for a close range war in Vietnam. It was chosen over .30 caliber rounds because it was lighter and allowed the infantryman to carry more rounds as well as it's lethality. There are wound channel studies and fragmentation versus velocity studies everywhere you look. There is not however, one single shread of evidence that the FMJ round was intentionally developed or chosen because of it's wounding capabilites. That is just madness. The U.S. military has never entered the field of combat with the intention of wounding the enemy.
Show me the research.
Now with that said, I still don't think it's a suitable hunting round. You get far better expansion and fragmentation from other commercial hunting rounds.
Documentation on 5.56 FMJ Fragmentation
http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=185
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56x45mm_NATO
http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/terminal.html
http://www.firearmstactical.com/pagea18.htm
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm
http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=173
The reasons the Military utilizes the FMJ is quite simple. If you were to shoot an enemy combatant with a “hunting type” of round, they would most certainly die.
If an enemy is shot with a FMJ round, they might die; however, it is also very likely that that enemy combatant will be wounded. If the enemy is WOUNDED, then it will require 2 to 3 of the other enemy combatants to tend to him and care for him, resulting in 3 or 4 of the enemy taken out of the fight rather than just 1 of the enemy being killed.
If a squad of 15 soldiers gets into a firefight, and one is wounded, the fighting force of 15 men will be reduced to about 11 men. If another is wounded, the fighting force is even more drastically reduced.
In short, while there are plenty of enemy combatants killed by FMJ ammunition, its principal application and design is to WOUND not kill. Not for humanitarian reasons, but to effectively reduce the capabilities, effectiveness, and mobility of enemy combatants.
BINGO!! KNOCKS THIS ONE OUT OF THE PARK! END OF DISCUSSION!
How's that? Please show proof of this. I can find documented research and facts that the 5.56 mm FMJ round was developed as a light to medium caliber for a close range war in Vietnam. It was chosen over .30 caliber rounds because it was lighter and allowed the infantryman to carry more rounds as well as it's lethality. There are wound channel studies and fragmentation versus velocity studies everywhere you look. There is not however, one single shread of evidence that the FMJ round was intentionally developed or chosen because of it's wounding capabilites. That is just madness. The U.S. military has never entered the field of combat with the intention of wounding the enemy.
Show me the research.
Now with that said, I still don't think it's a suitable hunting round. You get far better expansion and fragmentation from other commercial hunting rounds.
Documentation on 5.56 FMJ Fragmentation
http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=185
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56x45mm_NATO
http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/terminal.html
http://www.firearmstactical.com/pagea18.htm
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm
http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=173