Sgt_Mike
Well-known member
Recently I had posted about my buddy and I shooting our Winchester 121 at the local range and in that post I mentioned the two of us wanting to get some suppressors to be used on them for PD hunting. Well I decided to try my existing Huntertown Krestel 9 for this, although way too heavy, completely the wrong application. But it is user serviceable, thus would give my buddy Ed a idea of what the suppressor would sound like on his setup. Once we decide to get them. THIS was the only reason for me to do this, otherwise I wouldn't have.
I had used wire pulling gel on the baffle stack to get the can to act as a "wet" can. Maximizing the effectiveness, depending on brand you may or may not be able to use the concept. Check with your manufacturer, on usage, some can't be shot "wet" some can.
The purpose of the this post is for those whom keep asking "can I shoot 22LR through my other can" and to show just how quickly the build up is.
The can was clean and then had about 250 rounds 22LR through it, in the photos I'm not by any means complaining. But rather showing why not to do this with a "sealed" can .
looking at the baffle stack
Notice the lead particles here s another view
Now for the blast chamber, which for those whom are not really familiar with that term it's basically the area before the bullet enters the baffles closest to the muzzle. So that area is usually pretty dirty after firing. The first baffle aka "blast baffle" directs the gases from the bullets tail and somewhat "contains" a portion of the hot air by disruption.
Most manufacturers usually advise to clean somewhere around 1000 rounds.
Note the amount of lead and carbon after just 250 rounds. just imagine the amount that would be there if It had fired in the 1000's.
Now to observe the area that the blast chamber resides inside the mount part of the suppressor
Now for the tube where the baffle stack sits..
When this can (Huntertown Krestel 9) was being offered it was aimed at the hunter whom wanted to use a suppressor at a low cost. It did meet that objective, but gave up performance to the "sealed" cans. The can's material is actually robust, as it is all Stainless Steel, no exotic alloy's to save weight, performance enhancements, any advanced heat transfer of the hot muzzle gases as many other offering of other sealed can's do.
The can is rated to 308 Win with a 9mm bore, weighs in at 1lb 8ozs.
Most rimfire cans will be around the 6.5 plus ozs. weight range. So yes put this heavy monster on will cause barrel droop, and the poi will shift down.
Ed noticed a 2" drop at 75 yards (16.5" barrel), Me with a bit longer barrel (19" barrel) 3" (both of use using the exact same model of 22). That drop will only increase as the distance increases.
Now "if" the can's construction of the baffles, and the forward tube been made of say aluminum vs the SS used to save weight, most likely the poi shift would more favorable. But the durability would have not been as good with centerfire. The maker could have chosen a better material but it would have increased the price point. which is this can's only selling point.
To the user that drop will be highly discouraging, and it is due to weight solely, there maybe some to due to baffle design /bore diameter as well, then again maybe not.
As well as the weight for the whole package rifle /pistol , can, scope. 1lb 8 oz is heavy period so yeah NOT a good choice.
Performance wise how did this go? well it worked, it massively reduced the report, did it work better than a rimfire can? Not really the reduction (subsonic / supersonic) wasn't enough to offset the POI shift. And quite honestly it wasn't as quiet in some aspects as a true rimfire can. I'm not referring to just subsonic rounds, here but rather including the supersonic 22LR comparing dedicated rimfire to this centerfire can. A true rimfire can beat it IMO, although it reduced the report none the less, and was fun for Ed.
Now IF this had been a sealed can I would have not actually been able to clean it easily, or if at all. Actually I would have never even entertained the idea much less do it (I had two other sealed can's that could have been used which was lighter by a LOT). The materials used in most offerings (sealed can), would actually prevent some methods or the other and actually damaged the can in a cleaning process. In a sealed can, the carbon and lead would have accumulated and actually decreasing the volume of the can. Thus your can is ruined, the carbon can be cleaned easily but the lead not so much. The inexpensiveness of a rimfire can is just miles ahead of saving a few pennies. Sealed cans are actually designed to be somewhat "self cleaning" is the claim by many making them. Using the hot gases in the same idea of a "self cleaning" oven. The gases of a 22LR is nowhere near as hot as a centerfire, thus it will not work in that principle.
Now could one actually clean the lead from a sealed can quickly and fast?. PROBABLY but the most likely that I can conjure in my mind it is actually prohibited /restricted place it in a mercury bath that will dissolve ALL lead.
Same trick used to separate lead from gold been done for centuries.
Two massive hurdles using mercury bath method here 1. cost mercury isn't cheap ..... the 2nd the EPA and disposal cost as a individual,,, Not to mention if the materials used in the can is compatible with the agents being used to clean.
There are reasons we don't see manufacturers offer "mercury" bath cleaning. I know some will do what is referred to as "soda blast" but again only on disassemble one's, not sealed.
Are there other products sure, will they work?? Depends on the materials used in construction of the can.
There are other methods all with drawbacks and hazards. Can they / it be done safely ? Sure if one researches and follows usual guidance. It honestly boils down to risk acceptance of the user.
I've heard of using brake cleaner, never tried it. I'm sure it will work well on the carbon. Lead not so sure, it might. I do know it will jerk paint off of a car, so it might not work well on the finish if dipped in it in a container. But putting a stopper in the exit hole and filling the can internally with brake cleaner as assembled yeah I could see it working well with carbon (this was the method that was explained). I might have to give this go it would answer if it would cut some / all of the lead IDK.
But if you wish to discount my observations and opinions, then by all means feel free to do so. But please do use a "user serviceable" can, not a sealed / welded construction for rimfire usage.
Otherwise, if posted asking for help after firing 22LR from a sealed / welded can. I probably will not respond with a kind word, or if at all. Most likely the latter. From a can that can be disassembled yeah I'll respond quite differently, and without any malice.
I know some will come back with X, Y, and Z arguments of why they can use a sealed centerfire can with 22LR and clean it. OK fine believe what you want to. And if it works for you, great. As always "Your mileage will vary" and I offer this as my "opinion".
Regards,
Mike
I had used wire pulling gel on the baffle stack to get the can to act as a "wet" can. Maximizing the effectiveness, depending on brand you may or may not be able to use the concept. Check with your manufacturer, on usage, some can't be shot "wet" some can.
The purpose of the this post is for those whom keep asking "can I shoot 22LR through my other can" and to show just how quickly the build up is.
The can was clean and then had about 250 rounds 22LR through it, in the photos I'm not by any means complaining. But rather showing why not to do this with a "sealed" can .
looking at the baffle stack
Notice the lead particles here s another view
Now for the blast chamber, which for those whom are not really familiar with that term it's basically the area before the bullet enters the baffles closest to the muzzle. So that area is usually pretty dirty after firing. The first baffle aka "blast baffle" directs the gases from the bullets tail and somewhat "contains" a portion of the hot air by disruption.
Most manufacturers usually advise to clean somewhere around 1000 rounds.
Note the amount of lead and carbon after just 250 rounds. just imagine the amount that would be there if It had fired in the 1000's.
Now to observe the area that the blast chamber resides inside the mount part of the suppressor
Now for the tube where the baffle stack sits..
When this can (Huntertown Krestel 9) was being offered it was aimed at the hunter whom wanted to use a suppressor at a low cost. It did meet that objective, but gave up performance to the "sealed" cans. The can's material is actually robust, as it is all Stainless Steel, no exotic alloy's to save weight, performance enhancements, any advanced heat transfer of the hot muzzle gases as many other offering of other sealed can's do.
The can is rated to 308 Win with a 9mm bore, weighs in at 1lb 8ozs.
Most rimfire cans will be around the 6.5 plus ozs. weight range. So yes put this heavy monster on will cause barrel droop, and the poi will shift down.
Ed noticed a 2" drop at 75 yards (16.5" barrel), Me with a bit longer barrel (19" barrel) 3" (both of use using the exact same model of 22). That drop will only increase as the distance increases.
Now "if" the can's construction of the baffles, and the forward tube been made of say aluminum vs the SS used to save weight, most likely the poi shift would more favorable. But the durability would have not been as good with centerfire. The maker could have chosen a better material but it would have increased the price point. which is this can's only selling point.
To the user that drop will be highly discouraging, and it is due to weight solely, there maybe some to due to baffle design /bore diameter as well, then again maybe not.
As well as the weight for the whole package rifle /pistol , can, scope. 1lb 8 oz is heavy period so yeah NOT a good choice.
Performance wise how did this go? well it worked, it massively reduced the report, did it work better than a rimfire can? Not really the reduction (subsonic / supersonic) wasn't enough to offset the POI shift. And quite honestly it wasn't as quiet in some aspects as a true rimfire can. I'm not referring to just subsonic rounds, here but rather including the supersonic 22LR comparing dedicated rimfire to this centerfire can. A true rimfire can beat it IMO, although it reduced the report none the less, and was fun for Ed.
Now IF this had been a sealed can I would have not actually been able to clean it easily, or if at all. Actually I would have never even entertained the idea much less do it (I had two other sealed can's that could have been used which was lighter by a LOT). The materials used in most offerings (sealed can), would actually prevent some methods or the other and actually damaged the can in a cleaning process. In a sealed can, the carbon and lead would have accumulated and actually decreasing the volume of the can. Thus your can is ruined, the carbon can be cleaned easily but the lead not so much. The inexpensiveness of a rimfire can is just miles ahead of saving a few pennies. Sealed cans are actually designed to be somewhat "self cleaning" is the claim by many making them. Using the hot gases in the same idea of a "self cleaning" oven. The gases of a 22LR is nowhere near as hot as a centerfire, thus it will not work in that principle.
Now could one actually clean the lead from a sealed can quickly and fast?. PROBABLY but the most likely that I can conjure in my mind it is actually prohibited /restricted place it in a mercury bath that will dissolve ALL lead.
Same trick used to separate lead from gold been done for centuries.
Two massive hurdles using mercury bath method here 1. cost mercury isn't cheap ..... the 2nd the EPA and disposal cost as a individual,,, Not to mention if the materials used in the can is compatible with the agents being used to clean.
There are reasons we don't see manufacturers offer "mercury" bath cleaning. I know some will do what is referred to as "soda blast" but again only on disassemble one's, not sealed.
Are there other products sure, will they work?? Depends on the materials used in construction of the can.
There are other methods all with drawbacks and hazards. Can they / it be done safely ? Sure if one researches and follows usual guidance. It honestly boils down to risk acceptance of the user.
I've heard of using brake cleaner, never tried it. I'm sure it will work well on the carbon. Lead not so sure, it might. I do know it will jerk paint off of a car, so it might not work well on the finish if dipped in it in a container. But putting a stopper in the exit hole and filling the can internally with brake cleaner as assembled yeah I could see it working well with carbon (this was the method that was explained). I might have to give this go it would answer if it would cut some / all of the lead IDK.
But if you wish to discount my observations and opinions, then by all means feel free to do so. But please do use a "user serviceable" can, not a sealed / welded construction for rimfire usage.
Otherwise, if posted asking for help after firing 22LR from a sealed / welded can. I probably will not respond with a kind word, or if at all. Most likely the latter. From a can that can be disassembled yeah I'll respond quite differently, and without any malice.
I know some will come back with X, Y, and Z arguments of why they can use a sealed centerfire can with 22LR and clean it. OK fine believe what you want to. And if it works for you, great. As always "Your mileage will vary" and I offer this as my "opinion".
Regards,
Mike
