Has anyone ever tried a 22/243 AI?
- Thread starter ackleyman
- Start date
alf
Well-known member
Had a 22-243 Middlested once upon a time in a 14 twist 26" heavy varmint Hart barrel. 55's at 4100 and 40's at 4600.
Built it for coyotes, but ended up selling it as it was too dam heavy. I don't think I ever killed anything with it, but I do remember shooting over the very first coyote I shot at.
Speed doesn't always kill......
Built it for coyotes, but ended up selling it as it was too dam heavy. I don't think I ever killed anything with it, but I do remember shooting over the very first coyote I shot at.
Speed doesn't always kill......
My dad has always been a big fan of all things Ackley Improved so I guess that's where I get it. Between us we have five chamberings that are improved, four are AI versions (223AI, 6-06AI, 6.5-06AI, 338 Lapua AI) and one Kirby Allen 300AX which is a necked down 338 Lapua with his proprietary 35 degree shoulder.
From talking with Dave Kiff (w/PT&G) research says once you get past 37.5 degree shoulder angle it becomes counter productive with regard to flow characteristics. So maybe that's why you see so many "improved" cases with 30 and 35 degree shoulder angles. I know some folks claim the AI 40 degree causes extraction issues but I've never experienced any of those problems in any of the AI chambered rifles I have.
As for the 22-243AI vs 22-6mmAI, in an appropriate length'd barrel, I don't see how the 22-243AI could keep up. In a shorter barreled version, there may not be as much difference. BUT, brass quality would certainly favor the 22-243AI.
My dad has a 22-6mm that he really likes but he'll be the first to tell you, if he was starting all over, he'd absolutely have it chambered in 22-6mmAI.
I have to admit, if I were building a hot rod 22 cal something or other, with Lapua making 243 brass and the fact a 22-243 works so well in a SA 700 Remy, there is no doubt it would be a 22-243 Improved something or other.
From talking with Dave Kiff (w/PT&G) research says once you get past 37.5 degree shoulder angle it becomes counter productive with regard to flow characteristics. So maybe that's why you see so many "improved" cases with 30 and 35 degree shoulder angles. I know some folks claim the AI 40 degree causes extraction issues but I've never experienced any of those problems in any of the AI chambered rifles I have.
As for the 22-243AI vs 22-6mmAI, in an appropriate length'd barrel, I don't see how the 22-243AI could keep up. In a shorter barreled version, there may not be as much difference. BUT, brass quality would certainly favor the 22-243AI.
My dad has a 22-6mm that he really likes but he'll be the first to tell you, if he was starting all over, he'd absolutely have it chambered in 22-6mmAI.
I have to admit, if I were building a hot rod 22 cal something or other, with Lapua making 243 brass and the fact a 22-243 works so well in a SA 700 Remy, there is no doubt it would be a 22-243 Improved something or other.
Originally Posted By: ackleymanIt seems like the 22/243 AI would be a natural along with a 22/6 AI.
You see A LOT more 22-243's and all the variants, than you do 22-6mm or 22-6mm AI's and I'm going to go wayyyyy out on a limb and guess it's likely do to the fact a 22-243 works a lot better in a short action and 243 brass is plentiful and cheap, while 6mm brass has gone the way of the Dodo Bird.
You see A LOT more 22-243's and all the variants, than you do 22-6mm or 22-6mm AI's and I'm going to go wayyyyy out on a limb and guess it's likely do to the fact a 22-243 works a lot better in a short action and 243 brass is plentiful and cheap, while 6mm brass has gone the way of the Dodo Bird.
While it would not be intended as Colony Varmint rifle, but a long range rifle.
I see the 22/6 AI as shooting the 80g A max at 3600-3650, plug in the numbers in a ballistic's table, they are impressive to say the least.
With the 6 Remington brass being almost impossible to get, the next alternative would be a 22/243 AI.
Many guys are having great success with the 22/243 Variants on deer and antelope where the State law allows.
I see these size cases as being "at home" in the plains states were shooting in wide open spaces in windy weather the norm. I am hoping that some guys will chime in on their success.
Without a doubt, the 220 swift improved would be fantastic also.
I have shot deer with a Rem 700 sporter with the 60g Nosler partition at 3500 fps, and this load massacres deer worse than a 30/06. My 22/250 AI pushes the 60g at 3700 fps, and a 22/243 shoots the 60g at 4000 fps(reported to me by other shooters). For guys that don't like a lot of recoil and children, these are some very viable alternatives.
I see the 22/6 AI as shooting the 80g A max at 3600-3650, plug in the numbers in a ballistic's table, they are impressive to say the least.
With the 6 Remington brass being almost impossible to get, the next alternative would be a 22/243 AI.
Many guys are having great success with the 22/243 Variants on deer and antelope where the State law allows.
I see these size cases as being "at home" in the plains states were shooting in wide open spaces in windy weather the norm. I am hoping that some guys will chime in on their success.
Without a doubt, the 220 swift improved would be fantastic also.
I have shot deer with a Rem 700 sporter with the 60g Nosler partition at 3500 fps, and this load massacres deer worse than a 30/06. My 22/250 AI pushes the 60g at 3700 fps, and a 22/243 shoots the 60g at 4000 fps(reported to me by other shooters). For guys that don't like a lot of recoil and children, these are some very viable alternatives.
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Originally Posted By: ackleymanWithout a doubt, the 220 swift improved would be fantastic also.
And if Lapua ever makes 220 Swift brass, I'll have one! That long taper and neck of the 220 Swift is just begging to be improved. It's a pretty substantial increase in case capacity when you improve it, too.
I've always thought a 22-284 w/30 inch tube running 90gr Bergers would be a death ray, also.
And if Lapua ever makes 220 Swift brass, I'll have one! That long taper and neck of the 220 Swift is just begging to be improved. It's a pretty substantial increase in case capacity when you improve it, too.
I've always thought a 22-284 w/30 inch tube running 90gr Bergers would be a death ray, also.
Originally Posted By: B23Originally Posted By: ackleymanWithout a doubt, the 220 swift improved would be fantastic also.
And if Lapua ever makes 220 Swift brass, I'll have one! That long taper and neck of the 220 Swift is just begging to be improved. It's a pretty substantial increase in case capacity when you improve it, too.
I've always thought a 22-284 w/30 inch tube running 90gr Bergers would be a death ray, also.
I think that you are on to something here!
And if Lapua ever makes 220 Swift brass, I'll have one! That long taper and neck of the 220 Swift is just begging to be improved. It's a pretty substantial increase in case capacity when you improve it, too.
I've always thought a 22-284 w/30 inch tube running 90gr Bergers would be a death ray, also.
I think that you are on to something here!
Tim Neitzke
New member
Dang.. more toys to ponder !
I could really dig a 22-243 with a 62gr TSX for deer .
I could really dig a 22-243 with a 62gr TSX for deer .
Breatheandsqueeze
New member
I had one built 2 years ago and it has turned into pretty much the only thing I hunt with anymore. I built mine for the 75 grain AMax and it is a thing of beauty running them at 3600 with Retumbo or H1000.
I love the AI it just seems to make a good cartridge great. Now I am on to my next death ray .........a .20-250AI running 55 grain Bergers. When you look at the numbers it will make you look again. It is awesome.
John
I love the AI it just seems to make a good cartridge great. Now I am on to my next death ray .........a .20-250AI running 55 grain Bergers. When you look at the numbers it will make you look again. It is awesome.
John
dan brothers
New member
I have been pondering on that same idea of using 62gr TSX for deer with my 22-243 AI
Tim Neitzke
New member
My 223 AI runs them 3284 fps... grin...
Originally Posted By: Tim NeitzkeMy 223 AI runs them 3284 fps... grin...
Tim, what are the barrel specs on your 223AI and what powder do you use for that bullet.
Mine is built on a Rem700 w/Hart 22in 1-9tw sendero contour and, of course, it's threaded.
All I've ever run in mine, since I had it rebarreled, is 53Vmax with a pretty healthy dose of Benchmark and they've been awesome on yotes. Mine is throated pretty long, 2.38 OAL is just kissing the lands with those 53Vmax.
Tim, what are the barrel specs on your 223AI and what powder do you use for that bullet.
Mine is built on a Rem700 w/Hart 22in 1-9tw sendero contour and, of course, it's threaded.
Originally Posted By: ackleymanOriginally Posted By: B23Originally Posted By: ackleymanWithout a doubt, the 220 swift improved would be fantastic also.
And if Lapua ever makes 220 Swift brass, I'll have one! That long taper and neck of the 220 Swift is just begging to be improved. It's a pretty substantial increase in case capacity when you improve it, too.
I've always thought a 22-284 w/30 inch tube running 90gr Bergers would be a death ray, also.
I think that you are on to something here!
These sites do nothing but cost me money. At one time I was all worked up about having a fast twist long tubed 22-284 built to shoot those longgggggggggg 90gr Bergers but then I kind of got out of the mood and moved on to something else. Now I'm all worked up about revisiting that idea and to make it worse, you had to go and mention a 220 Swift AI which I've always wanted since I was just a kid. I don't exactly know why but I've always felt there is just something special about a Swift. My dad used to have, before some dirt bag stole it, a semi custom built on a Pre 64 model 70 when I was little, I guess I never have gotten over it. lol
And if Lapua ever makes 220 Swift brass, I'll have one! That long taper and neck of the 220 Swift is just begging to be improved. It's a pretty substantial increase in case capacity when you improve it, too.
I've always thought a 22-284 w/30 inch tube running 90gr Bergers would be a death ray, also.
I think that you are on to something here!
These sites do nothing but cost me money. At one time I was all worked up about having a fast twist long tubed 22-284 built to shoot those longgggggggggg 90gr Bergers but then I kind of got out of the mood and moved on to something else. Now I'm all worked up about revisiting that idea and to make it worse, you had to go and mention a 220 Swift AI which I've always wanted since I was just a kid. I don't exactly know why but I've always felt there is just something special about a Swift. My dad used to have, before some dirt bag stole it, a semi custom built on a Pre 64 model 70 when I was little, I guess I never have gotten over it. lol
BAYSTATE YOTE
Active member
I am wondering where he got the action for this new build.
Tim Neitzke
New member
3 groups @100 yards all at one session...
.223 AI
Rem 700 trued
P-N Rem Mtn R contour
8 twist finished @ 22"
McMillan Mtn R stock 60% black 40% white
ADL
Fluted bolt custom knob
Jewell trigger
Scope 3.5-10x40 CDS
Talleys
Scoped it weighs in at 7# 1 oz
Tim, that's a very nice looking piece of work and it appears she shoots pretty darn well, too!
Mine started life as a Rem. LTR 223. Other than a new 22in fluted Hart barrel, having the action blueprinted and the facory HS Pre. stock bed, mine hasn't changed a whole lot. I had it Cerakoted black and a NF 3.5-15x50 sits on top, also.
Thanks for the load information.
Mine started life as a Rem. LTR 223. Other than a new 22in fluted Hart barrel, having the action blueprinted and the facory HS Pre. stock bed, mine hasn't changed a whole lot. I had it Cerakoted black and a NF 3.5-15x50 sits on top, also.
Thanks for the load information.
Tim Neitzke
New member
Thanks,
It was my first venture into the AI world. Then I built a varmint model, then got a 243 AI, then a 280 AI...lol
Barrel is a 3 grove, primers cci 450, Lapua brass...
Sounds like you have a nice rifle aswell.
It was my first venture into the AI world. Then I built a varmint model, then got a 243 AI, then a 280 AI...lol
Barrel is a 3 grove, primers cci 450, Lapua brass...
Sounds like you have a nice rifle aswell.