Has anyone worked up loads with Blue Dot for a 22/250?

A

ackleyman

New member
It sure would be a great answer for fox hunters and high volume squrirrel shooters.

I shoot Blue Dot in my 223 with the 40's and accuracy is less than 1/2" from 3000 fps to 3300 (max load) with 22 Mag noise and no barrel heat to speak of.
 
Google 'seafire blue dot' and you should be able to find a couple of forums where seafire has posted loads. He has done a lot of experimenting with blue dot and is always happy to e-mail a list of his loads.
 
That just doesn't sound safe to me. Is there any reloading manuals with rifle loads using bluedot? I've never seen one, but was curious if there might be any.
 
Bluedot is the current rage on several forums for reduced loads. So far many people have gotten away with firing a few hundred rounds without blowing themselves up. Except the one guy that posted pictures of this blown up TC and face, only three surgeries to save his eye. Of coarse everyone assumed it must of been a bad barrel rather then a dangerous practice. When you do the Seafire search you might want to e-mail him and ask him if he has had any of his loads pressure tested. Or better yet get a hold of the makers of Bluedot and ask them if it's safe.
 
I inherited an old box of reloading components from the late 60's and early 70's. In it there is an old Lyman book, and they have a bunch of reduced loads for the 22-250 for lead swaged bullets with-out jackets with green dot and red dot. I am an absolute beginner. I do not know what would happen using a modern jacketed bullets, with these type of powders.
 
Here's the post from seafire.


Work up, as always.. these loads tested safe in the Ruger Sporter used.. and has also proven just fine in a Winchester Model 70 Varmint, a Ruger VT, and a Mauser 98....

cheers
seafire



Blue Dot Range Report: 22/250

Firearm Used: Ruger 77 Mk 2

Barrel: 22 inch sporter weight

Case: Remington

Range Tested: 7 grains to 20 grains. 20 % ( 6.6 grains) 60 % ( 19.8 grains)

Full Case Capacity to Rim: 33 grains/

Bullets Used in Test:
46 Win HP, 50 Hornady SP, 52 Sierra HP Match, 55 Win FMJ, 60 Hornady SP
63 Sierra SMP


Test Results:

I. 46 grain Winchester Hollow Point, Win Large Pistol Primer

1. 7 grs: 1721 fps
2. 8 grs: 1895 fps
3. 9 grs: 2095 fps
4. 10 grs: 2264 fps
5. 11 grs: 2390 fps

6. 12 grs: 2537 fps
7. 13 grs: 2675 fps
8. 14 grs: 2781 fps
9. 15 grs: NO Reading
10. 16 grs: 3063 fps

11. 17 grs: 3177 fps
12. 18 grs: 3274 fps
13. 19 grs: 3388 fps ( Consider Max)
14. 20 grs: 3440 fps ( Extractor Mark, Scrapped Case)

II. 50 grain Hornady SP, Win Large Rifle Primer

1. 7 grs: 1722 fps
2. 8 grs: 1911 fps
3. 9 grs: 2057 fps
4. 10 grs: 2206 fps
5. 11 grs: 2328 fps

6. 12 grs: 2473 fps
7. 13 grs: 2627 fps
8. 14 grs: 2729 fps
9. 15 grs: 2856 fps
10. 16 grs: 2940 fps

11. 17 grs: 3116 fps
12. 18 grs: 3181 fps
13. 19 grs: 3271 fps
14. 20 grs: 3354 fps

With this bullet, all the way to 20 grains was reached ( 60%). However, I would recommend max being set at 19 grains or less.


III Sierra 52 grain Hollow Point Match Win Large Pistol Primer

1. 7 grs: 1676 fps
2. 8 grs: 1841 fps
3. 9 grs: 1998 fps
4. 10 grs: 2127 fps
5. 11 grs: 2311 fps

6. 12 grs: 2416 fps
7. 13 grs: 2551 fps
8. 14 grs: No Read
9. 15 grs: 2795 fps
10. 16 grs: 2935 fps

11. 17 grs: 3029 fps
12. 18 grs: 3127 fps
13. 19 grs: 3252 fps
14. 20 grs: 3297 fps

This bullet also reached the 20 grains mark ( 60 %) . However once again I recommend max being set at 19 grains or less.


IV Winchester 55 gr FMJ, Win Large Pistol Primer

1. 7grs: 1636 fps
2. 8 grs: 1800 fps
3. 9 grs: 1986 fps
4. 10 grs: 2126 fps
5. 11 grs: 2247 fps

6. 12 grs: 2392 fps
7. 13 grs: 2504 fps
8. 14 grs: 2631 fps
9. 15 grs: 2738 fps
10. 16 grs: 2872 fps

11. 17 grs: 3003 fps
12. 18 grs: 3095 fps
13. 19 grs: 3203 fps
14. 20 grs: 3250 fps

As again Noted, this bullet also achieved reaching the 20 grain Mark ( 60%). However once again I recommend max capacity at 19 grains or less.


V. Hornady 60 grain SP, Win Mag Rifle Primer

1. 7 grs: 1587 fps
2. 8 grs: 1769 fps
3. 9 grs: 1901 fps
4. 10 grs: 2034 fps
5. 11 grs: 2162 fps

6. 12 grs: 2290 fps
7. 13 grs: 2406 fps
8. 14 grs: 2489 fps
9. 15 grs: 2618 fps
10. 16 grs: 2735 fps

11. 17 grs: 2832 fps
12. 18 grs: 2832 fps
13. 19 grs: 3058 fps ( considered max)
14. 20 grs: 3119 fps ( primer leaked, extractor marks, scrapped case)

Max was achieved at 19 grains. Recommend Max load at 19 grains or less.
Based on tree used as back stop, which had a 6 inch diameter to it, bullets at 15 grains of powder and up were penetrating the tree completely. Based on this I would recommend this point as a potential deer load for youths, keeping range within 100 to 125 yds or so ( 30/30 range). The 63 grain Sierra SMP showed a lot more damage to the tree than did the Hornady, and at a much lower velocity. Use on deer is the personal choice of the shooter or adult. Some argue against 22 Center fire on deer and others are just fine with it. Key is shot placement and range limitation. I am just reporting damage to media, and penetration that I am passing on to the reader.



VI. Sierra 63 grain Semi Pointed ( SMP) Win Mag Rifle Primer

1. 7 grs: 1455 fps
2. 8 grs: 1607 fps
3. 9 grs: 1848 fps
4. 10 grs: 1860 fps
5. 11 grs: 2034 fps

6. 12 grs: 2176 fps
7. 13 grs: 2327 fps
8. 14 grs: 2443 fps
9. 15 grs: 2578 fps
10. 16 grs: 2668 fps

11. 17 grs: 2787 fps
12. 18 grs: 2850 fps
13. 19 grs: 2958 fps ( Consider Maximum!, NO problems observed)
14. 20 grs: 2982 fps ( Popped primer, jammed bolt)


Conclusions:

For training and starting out a youth, I consider the 22/250 a better first choice to start out with, based on the test results as compared to a 223. The 223 has the economy of cheaper brass, but the 22/250 I thought offered more flexibility by being able to achieve higher velocities with heavier bullets than the 223 achieves.

For training of youths to deer hunt, the 63 grain bullet offered a lot of promise of everything tested. Results for a 64 grain Winchester would be close to the same, just recommend working up. Start looking for max with 18 grains or so. As one can see, the increase in fps is not that much, and would make no real world difference, as I consider that 200 yds would be max range. I also feel that training a youth not to take shots over that distance is a responsible habit for an adult to teach younger shooters. Let them learn with experience and practice to learn to shoot at longer ranges.

The 22/250 can be loaded down to levels that are between a 22 Long Rifle and a 22 Mag.
The recoil is very low, but also so is the noise at these levels. Especially the 10 grain loads and under. It can also be enjoyable for an adult. My own 22 mags are going to get dusty, as these loads are not only cheaper to shoot, but are more accurate… plus one can have a bullet of his choice instead of what the factory picks to load. At the lower volumes, such as 7 grains and up, these can also make a very satisfactory load for Squirrel hunting, or similar sized game at appropriate ranges. Consult a trajectory chart in some of the commercially available reload manuals. Even at 2000 fps or under, these would make good loads for calling coyotes if you can bring them in at 100 yds or so.
Game bullets would have the punch to drop a coyote at those velocities.

Important Notes:

These loads were tested in cool weather, moist outside and around the 55 to 60 degree ranges. Work up if the higher loads near max are to be used in hot weather.

Bullets were seated out to the magazine length in the Ruger. If your rifle has a tight neck, or a shorter chamber ( Rugers are generous) then work up your loads. Also seating bullets deeper can increase pressures.

Remember Blue Dot is a faster powder. However no filler is needed and I have tested it down to just 10 % of load capacity ( 3.3 grains and it worked just fine). It is not powder position sensitive in the case either.

This data represents data that I have observed. It is shared as a point of reference.
Outcomes are the responsibility of each handloader, who should be careful in his work.

The 22/250 showed me a lot of flexibility here, moreso than the 223 even.
It would be my pick as a better choice for a first rifle for a youth, utilizing this gathered test data.

Cheers and Good shooting
Seafire/ May 11, 2004
 
I have not used blue dot however, my reduced load for 22-250 that I use for squirrel hunting is done with [9.5 grains] IMR 4227, CCI 200 & Sierra 40 grain HP. This chronographs at 1642 fps. Moving up to 10.9 grains = 1711 fps \ 11.4 grains = 1986.
I settled on the slowest, the Sierra seems rather hard and doesn’t blow the squirrels apart. This load was provided to me by Sierra’s tech line several years ago.

B..
 
Thanks IDBob for taking the time to look up and post. No doubt that this info should help a lot of fox hunters and cat hunters that are on a budget and can not afford to go out and buy a new rifle and scope for every need.

In my own 223 rifle, accuracy at 200 yards with the 40's was 1 1/2" at 3300 fps, should make a great squirrel round and at 3000 fps a world class fox round.

I think that I will screw my 22/250 barrel back on my 700 and try some of these loads.
 
Thanks for the link.

I was hoping for some data from Alliant powder company since they make the powder. They do publish loads for there other powders. I know that I have seen reduced loads from Hodgdon using only H4895.

I have just heard too many stories of rifles blowing up, with thoughts of walking around with a red tipped white cane and all. Just thought it to be safer to spend a few hundred dollars on a 22 Mag or 22 Hornet or such, until factory engineers publish some load data.
 
You can use Blue dot and a few other powders for reduced loads but you have to keep in mind that they are very sensitive and can also cause a hi pressure spike. In other words a Max charge of blue dot or others can also blow youre gun up. Why risk it! If i'm after tree rats then i use a 22 L.R.... T.A.
 
I have tried it in .223 with 40g VMaxes and it works pretty well. Not going to win any matches with it but it is pretty accurate and will take care of most of the game that .223 was designed for. Cheap. Not too loud. No recoil. Keeps the barrel from heating up too. Not among the cleanest powders that I have used either.

I have not tried it in any of my ARs, just a couple of bolt guns.

I do see the opportunity for mishaps to occur since the fill is such a low percentage. It would be easy to miss an undercharge or overcharge but the 60% fill rule would prevent a double charge. The safest procedure would probably be to load one at a time and stay below Seafire's max recommendations.
 
Quote:
Bluedot is the current rage on several forums for reduced loads. So far many people have gotten away with firing a few hundred rounds without blowing themselves up. Except the one guy that posted pictures of this blown up TC and face, only three surgeries to save his eye. Of coarse everyone assumed it must of been a bad barrel rather then a dangerous practice. When you do the Seafire search you might want to e-mail him and ask him if he has had any of his loads pressure tested. Or better yet get a hold of the makers of Bluedot and ask them if it's safe.



Blue Dot loads aren't really "reduced", but fairly standard pressure loads using a fast powder that's very bulky and there's a lot less of it by weight. Your safety admonitions are preaching to the choir...... Ackleyman is a more meticulous handloader than you could ever imagine and positively knows what he's doing. Of all the reloaders I know, I'd trust his loads without hesitation, and have.

On other boards I've seen mention of a blowup and eye injury, but no particulars. This by the "no-no-no" crowd. So it was a T/C.....a Contender? That and a bolt action are nowhere near the same thing. Regardless, blowing up a gun means that someone made a big mistake.
 
I tried to double charge a 223 and it could not be done, it would over flow, this blue dot is very bulky.

I weigh every charge that I use when throwing blue dot loads, and I suggest the same to everyone else that ever considers using Blue Dot.

Then again, I weigh every charge that I throw with the exception of ball powders.

Blue dot offers a great option for those guys that are wanting to take foxes and bobcats and not blow them up.
 
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