How do you do load development
- Thread starter champ198
- Start date
I load up a some rounds and they are seated just jambing into the lands. I then head to the range with my gear which includes a 21st Century arbor press and a Wilson seating die.
Fire 3 rounds and start looking at groups. After 3 rounds are fired is use the seating die and seat 3 more about 10-15 thousands deeper. I continue checking the groups until I get the groups I'm looking for.
Fire 3 rounds and start looking at groups. After 3 rounds are fired is use the seating die and seat 3 more about 10-15 thousands deeper. I continue checking the groups until I get the groups I'm looking for.
Duhhh
Well-known member
I pick a powder and components and start 2.5 grains from book max. I’ll work up to the max charge and load up 5 for each charge weight. I’ll pick the load that gives me the best result then I’ll load about 10-20 more.
I subscribe to the ten shot zero process so I’ll use them to zero my gun. Every shots Chronographed by my Garmin so I have a decent start for data at the end of those ten shots. If my group absolutely sucks, I’ll switch to a different powder.
Ive been very lucky that seating depth hasn’t played a huge role in accuracy for me. I’ll usually just seat 20 thousandths off the lands or at SAAMI spec and call it good.
If I have a 10 shot group that’s within 1.5 inches off a bench, I load up 50 and start shooting them at longer ranges. 1.5 MOA groups have still been very effective for me within 1000 yards so I haven’t spent time with all of the black magic and methods that can come with reloading.
I subscribe to the ten shot zero process so I’ll use them to zero my gun. Every shots Chronographed by my Garmin so I have a decent start for data at the end of those ten shots. If my group absolutely sucks, I’ll switch to a different powder.
Ive been very lucky that seating depth hasn’t played a huge role in accuracy for me. I’ll usually just seat 20 thousandths off the lands or at SAAMI spec and call it good.
If I have a 10 shot group that’s within 1.5 inches off a bench, I load up 50 and start shooting them at longer ranges. 1.5 MOA groups have still been very effective for me within 1000 yards so I haven’t spent time with all of the black magic and methods that can come with reloading.
Depends on your shooting requirements. Competition or very long range required fancy equipment. Normal 50-100 yd hunting/shooting, pick components & powder. I don't trickle powder, FA elec scale. Standard die sets. GRT or loading book for loads. Load a few and try ( I do 10). Bullet choice is important for terminal results. When you find a combination that works (your criteria) WRITE IT DOWN. Temp too (Deg F).
hickerx2
Member
Satterlee for me. Find a flat spot and load groups on either side. I start with book COAL and see what it gets me. If it looks good, I'll adjust seating depth to get where I want to be (depends on what the purpose of the load is). For a simple deer hunting load, it's generally a very fast and easy process to get 1 MOA or less if the rifle is capable. I've had extremely favorable results using the Saterlee method vs. OCW or ladder tests.
champ198
Active member
That is where I am at. Is what "Method" to start with.
I think I am going to try the Satterlee method first to see how it works.
Most of my rifles are more deer rifles than anything but with my wife hunting and my daughter starting this year there is going to be a lot of shooting.
I have everything for about all of our rifles other than Primers for my 300 WSM and dies for my Daughters 300 BLK.
But for pretty much everything else I have it ready to go.
I have a gun club I will be joining that has a 550 Yard rifle range to do load development on at some further distances also when needed.
If you read about those 'methods', you will see that they require very good case prep, powder trickling, chrony (good one), etc. I use Lee die for the BO. This is 145gr cast plain base, 2100 fps @ 100 yds., load of H110 from RCBS powder dropper, near max load. BO carbine. Converted 223 brass (range pick-up). NO load development, just below max a bit. Friend wanted to see what my AR10 308W would do @ 200. 165gr cast GCd, NO load development (2400 fps). MOA on steel!
spotstalkshoot
Well-known member
For hunting rifles using less than 40 grs powder I test in 0.2 gr increments. I load up 3-6 start load charge weights and zero with them, than shoot the target 1 each incremental charge weight. I plumb the target, and usually use a 20x scope with .25 moa dot. I'm seating all bullets 0.020 off the lands,or the suggested coal for the specific bullet. Depends on mag length restrictions or previous data for the rifle. I'm measuring the target for minimum vertical dispersion. I like less than 1 bullet diameter vertical in a 0.5 gr range. Than work seating depth. If twist/bullet/powder are working together, sub 1" groups are pretty easy with good barrels. Chronograph is after load development and confirmation testing. I usually can be done in 50 rds. I let barrel cool between shots. 2 shot groups to confirm loads in hunting rifles(because or component availability and cost).
This is what I do in combination with quickload. This is a outline I created of Erik Cortina's process that I created for my brother. If you go to his YT you can listen to it, I highly suggest it. I have been reloading for 20 or so years and wish I had this when I started. It does require an accurate scale to be effective and if you don't anneal I would start. Hope it helps. Randy
- Step 1 Combustion
- Combustion is Extreme Spread (ES)
- Find powder with low ES
- Bad ES
- Wrong powder charge
- Wrong powder type
- Wrong powder
- Case capacity variant
- Wrong Neck tension
- GOOD ES go to step 2
- Bad ES
- Find powder with low ES
- Combustion is Extreme Spread (ES)
- Step 2 = Harmonics (Group Size)
- Good ES but bad group = bad harmonics, ie seating depth
- Adjust seating depth
- Find jam and subtract 20 thousandths (0.020)
- Adjust three thousandths increments (0.003)
- Find seating depths that give consecutive good groups
- x- 2.150, 2.153, 2.156 are good groups
- Pick 2.155 as depth
- Seat 2.158
- Pick 2.155 as depth
- x- 2.150, 2.153, 2.156 are good groups
- Every once in a while to check if it will shoot Or if groups opens up
- Adjust seating depth
- Step 3 Ext. ballistics
- Group at 100 is but group sucks at distance
- Bullet BC may be inconsistent
- Change bullet
- Group at 100 is but group sucks at distance
- Good ES but bad group = bad harmonics, ie seating depth
- In a nut shell
- Find low es
- Then seating for group
- High es = adjust step one
- Low es adjust seating
- Then seating for group
- Reshoot for velocity
- Find low es
DiRTY DOG
Well-known member
Step 1. Select a bullet.
I recently built a new 20 Practical for lead free varminting 0-300 yards. Hornady's 24gr NTX has been steadily available, shoots well, and is often on sale around $20/100. It should shoot well in my 11 twist barrel.
Step 2. Select a powder.
I had a bunch of IMR 8208 XBR, it shoots great with light for caliber bullets, it is temp stable, and it is one of the top powders that others have had success with in 20P and similar cartridges. But I could not find any load data for 24gr Hornady NTX with 8208 XBR. After a lot of research comparing other bullets and other similar cartridges, I figured the parameters would be approximately:
Min: 25.0gr
Max: 27.0gr
So I loaded a pressure ladder to find max in my barrel, knowing I'd have to pull down a few on the top end:
25.6gr
25.8gr
26.0gr
26.2gr
26.4gr
26.6gr
26.8gr
27.0gr
27.2gr
27.4gr
27.6gr
27.8gr
Step 3. Select a primer.
I use CCI 450 primers in all of my precision small rifle primer cartridges.
Step 4. Select brass.
I'm using new Starline for now until Lapua starts 223Rem production again. Initial testing shows Starline is working fine and I may stick with it.
Step 5. Select seating depth.
It must fit in a detachable magazine for this rifle. I have had great luck using Erik Cortina's "jam minus 0.020" method. Measurements are made with a Hornady bullet comparator on digital calipers. For my barrel, this length fits in my AICS style magazine.
Step 5. Zero the scope.
Since this was a new build, I had to get on paper. I loaded two medium loads of 26.5gr to get zeroed.
Step 6. Perform pressure ladder test.
As outline above, I fired the pressure ladder over a Garmin chronograph, starting low to high. I stopped when I saw the first sign of pressure. In this case, 27.6gr showed a slightly flatter Primer. The velocity was also getting higher than I expected. That was definitely getting hot.
Based on my chrono data, I guessed there would be a sweet spot at 26.0gr and another at 27.0gr. BUT, so far I only had a dozen pieces of fireformed brass, I needed more. Virgin brass is going to shoot slower. And this was a brand new barrel. The data is not super reliable yet. It's a starting point.
Step 7. Fireform more brass.
In order to really develop an accurate load, I needed more fireformed brass. So I started some additional load testing and shot several 5-shot groups repeated a few times:
25.6gr
25.8gr
26.0gr - best
26.2gr
And
26.6gr
26.8gr
27.0gr - best
27.2gr
Both 26.0 and 27.0 produced a few cloverleaf and one hole groups. I'm just using a bipod and rear bag, so my shooting is not perfect. Multiple groups helps me determine if the load/accuracy is repeatable or not.
Step 8. Process fireformed brass.
Anneal
Tumble in walnut lizzard media 2 hours
Lube with Hornady One Shot in a zip lock bag
Size with Redding FL bushing die No expander ball
Trim with World's Cheapest Trimmer
Chamfer/debur
Tumble off lube in walnut lizzard media 1 hour
Lube inside necks with One Shot on a qtip
Expand necks with 21st Century mandrel
Step 9. Test with fireformed brass.
With about 100 rounds down the new barrel, and fireformed brass, I can actually start load development. I already have a pretty good idea based on virgin brass loads. Same powder loads as in step 7. All loads shot over a Garmin chronograph. All of my load development testing is done at 100 yards.
**********
This is where I am right now. So far, 26.0gr and 27.0gr regularly shoot cloverleaf or one hole groups. This is not a benchrest gun and I'm only using a bipod, but it shoots like this regularly with 200 rounds down the barrel.
26.0gr seems to be the most consistent. Velocity is acceptable, it's a mild/medium load that will be easy on the barrel. It's 50fps faster than virgin brass.
Ave: 4175 fps
SD: 10.1 fps
ES: 26.9 fps
27.0gr is also a great shooter but the chrono numbers are not as good. It may not matter at all under 300 yards for a varmint gun.
Ave: 4330 fps
SD: 21.5 fps
ES: 65.6 fps
I'm seeing repeatable groups like this:
Step 10. Test seating depth.
After combustion testing is completed (powder/primers), the next step is seating depth. My accuracy was acceptable at jam minus 0.020" so I did not test any further. Anyways, I have not had much luck improving groups by changing seating depth, not with my setups. Maybe depth would make more of a difference on a benchrest or long range gun?
Step 11. Test at distance.
Next test will be 26gr & 27gr at 200 /300 yards to verify the loads hold up. I'll probably also try 26.5gr. Several 5 shot groups will tell me if it's consistent. This needs to be done on a calm day.
**********
Accuracy testing is never a one time conclusion based on a lucky group. It must be repeatable and hold up day after day. You can get a pretty good idea after one or two range sessions, but for me, it takes more than that to have confidence in my load.
I also keep all of my load development targets in a binder for later reference. I record all the data on the target immediately so I don't forget.
Accuracy testing is a lot easier when the rifle is capable of good accuracy. I'm using a Savage action, Criterion barrel, RifleBasix-1 trigger, Bell & Carlson stock with full length aluminum bedding block. I bedded the receiver and recoil lug, and free floated the barrel and tang.
I recently built a new 20 Practical for lead free varminting 0-300 yards. Hornady's 24gr NTX has been steadily available, shoots well, and is often on sale around $20/100. It should shoot well in my 11 twist barrel.
Step 2. Select a powder.
I had a bunch of IMR 8208 XBR, it shoots great with light for caliber bullets, it is temp stable, and it is one of the top powders that others have had success with in 20P and similar cartridges. But I could not find any load data for 24gr Hornady NTX with 8208 XBR. After a lot of research comparing other bullets and other similar cartridges, I figured the parameters would be approximately:
Min: 25.0gr
Max: 27.0gr
So I loaded a pressure ladder to find max in my barrel, knowing I'd have to pull down a few on the top end:
25.6gr
25.8gr
26.0gr
26.2gr
26.4gr
26.6gr
26.8gr
27.0gr
27.2gr
27.4gr
27.6gr
27.8gr
Step 3. Select a primer.
I use CCI 450 primers in all of my precision small rifle primer cartridges.
Step 4. Select brass.
I'm using new Starline for now until Lapua starts 223Rem production again. Initial testing shows Starline is working fine and I may stick with it.
Step 5. Select seating depth.
It must fit in a detachable magazine for this rifle. I have had great luck using Erik Cortina's "jam minus 0.020" method. Measurements are made with a Hornady bullet comparator on digital calipers. For my barrel, this length fits in my AICS style magazine.
Step 5. Zero the scope.
Since this was a new build, I had to get on paper. I loaded two medium loads of 26.5gr to get zeroed.
Step 6. Perform pressure ladder test.
As outline above, I fired the pressure ladder over a Garmin chronograph, starting low to high. I stopped when I saw the first sign of pressure. In this case, 27.6gr showed a slightly flatter Primer. The velocity was also getting higher than I expected. That was definitely getting hot.
Based on my chrono data, I guessed there would be a sweet spot at 26.0gr and another at 27.0gr. BUT, so far I only had a dozen pieces of fireformed brass, I needed more. Virgin brass is going to shoot slower. And this was a brand new barrel. The data is not super reliable yet. It's a starting point.
Step 7. Fireform more brass.
In order to really develop an accurate load, I needed more fireformed brass. So I started some additional load testing and shot several 5-shot groups repeated a few times:
25.6gr
25.8gr
26.0gr - best
26.2gr
And
26.6gr
26.8gr
27.0gr - best
27.2gr
Both 26.0 and 27.0 produced a few cloverleaf and one hole groups. I'm just using a bipod and rear bag, so my shooting is not perfect. Multiple groups helps me determine if the load/accuracy is repeatable or not.
Step 8. Process fireformed brass.
Anneal
Tumble in walnut lizzard media 2 hours
Lube with Hornady One Shot in a zip lock bag
Size with Redding FL bushing die No expander ball
Trim with World's Cheapest Trimmer
Chamfer/debur
Tumble off lube in walnut lizzard media 1 hour
Lube inside necks with One Shot on a qtip
Expand necks with 21st Century mandrel
Step 9. Test with fireformed brass.
With about 100 rounds down the new barrel, and fireformed brass, I can actually start load development. I already have a pretty good idea based on virgin brass loads. Same powder loads as in step 7. All loads shot over a Garmin chronograph. All of my load development testing is done at 100 yards.
**********
This is where I am right now. So far, 26.0gr and 27.0gr regularly shoot cloverleaf or one hole groups. This is not a benchrest gun and I'm only using a bipod, but it shoots like this regularly with 200 rounds down the barrel.
26.0gr seems to be the most consistent. Velocity is acceptable, it's a mild/medium load that will be easy on the barrel. It's 50fps faster than virgin brass.
Ave: 4175 fps
SD: 10.1 fps
ES: 26.9 fps
27.0gr is also a great shooter but the chrono numbers are not as good. It may not matter at all under 300 yards for a varmint gun.
Ave: 4330 fps
SD: 21.5 fps
ES: 65.6 fps
I'm seeing repeatable groups like this:
Step 10. Test seating depth.
After combustion testing is completed (powder/primers), the next step is seating depth. My accuracy was acceptable at jam minus 0.020" so I did not test any further. Anyways, I have not had much luck improving groups by changing seating depth, not with my setups. Maybe depth would make more of a difference on a benchrest or long range gun?
Step 11. Test at distance.
Next test will be 26gr & 27gr at 200 /300 yards to verify the loads hold up. I'll probably also try 26.5gr. Several 5 shot groups will tell me if it's consistent. This needs to be done on a calm day.
**********
Accuracy testing is never a one time conclusion based on a lucky group. It must be repeatable and hold up day after day. You can get a pretty good idea after one or two range sessions, but for me, it takes more than that to have confidence in my load.
I also keep all of my load development targets in a binder for later reference. I record all the data on the target immediately so I don't forget.
Accuracy testing is a lot easier when the rifle is capable of good accuracy. I'm using a Savage action, Criterion barrel, RifleBasix-1 trigger, Bell & Carlson stock with full length aluminum bedding block. I bedded the receiver and recoil lug, and free floated the barrel and tang.
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Been tempted to try them in my Practical and .204. We can use lead so I mainly use 40 grain BIB's, 35 gr and 40 Berger's, with BIB's being my favorite. I will be interested to see how those work out for you on game.
champ198
Active member
That was a great explination. That helps a lot as that is pretty close to the same process i am doing now.
The Load Dev is what i have always struggled with over the years. Have one friend that says he just takes the load data from the Nosler reloading book and uses the "most accurate load" and its always been on. I have not found that to be the case.
I know that everyone is a bit different on how they find the data they want but thankfully I am on the right track.