how good of groups at 100 yards??

S

street

New member
i took my new 243 to the range after gunsmithing today.. shot bout quarter sized groups off sand bags.. can it get better.. or do I need to get better?
 
Originally posted by street:
[qb]or do I need to get better?[/qb]
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That's one of those questions that if you have to ask it, you probably know the answer. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

From what I've read and people I've listened too, the most important thing in accurate shooting is trigger time, trigger time, trigger time. Or as Gerry Blair would say, "a hell of a lot (and maybe more)."
 
There are a lot of facters involved here, you stated after some gunsmithing, that could be a big part of accuracy, are the stock screws tightens properly, is the barrel clean or is it to clean is it a new barrel, just ofhand I'd say that a fair 243 should have better groups than a quarter lets say that a quarter is about a inch and a quarter, Dose the gun surprise you when it goes off. are you squeezing the trigger, If you aren't having any flyers or at lesst not more than 1 per grouping, I'd say that if you are getting 1 1/4 inch groups that your trigger finger is probably fine, clean your barrle, and after about 10 shots try another group, and don't forget the wind, shoot early am or evening when wind is down. you might see your groups 3/4 inch or better then you have something. to get better than that you might have to practice practice practice.
Hey I just measurd a quarter, its smaller than I thought, I still say that you should do better, but a quarter is pretty good, more than good enough for a coyote gun, ifn your shooten prarie dogs better get it down a little more unless you found some uneducatd ones
 
My Modle 70 Winchester 270 shot that well out of the box with factory ammo, and I am pretty happy with it. I suppose I could tinker with some hand loads and do some stuff to the rifle, but I have been spending what little range time I can get shooting off my sticks for practice. A bit of a difference shooting off the bench and shooting off the sticks, but the sticks are a lot lighter to carry to the field.
 
I have been getting about 3/4" groups out of my bushmaster at 100yds with factory ammo that costs me 10 bucks for 40 rounds and I am happy with that. My 22-250 will shoot 1/2" at 100yds and almost the same at 200 but thats with handloads that perfected for the gun. Like they said practice practice practice...it helped me with my AR when I first started shooting it best I could do was about 3"!!!!
 
What do you hunt and how far do you shoot? Group size can be over emphasized.
I'd say right now you have a 250-300 yd. deer/yote rifle in good conditions. If all you can see of the animal is part of the head at 200 yds, you better not shoot.
Have you trried lots of loads, etc?
For the first time out that does not sound bad.
Carl
 
Good question, but let's keep it in perspective by asking yourself this: What do I intend to use the rifle for? Shooting quarters? Or shooting coyotes?

Let's say a quarter is .950". Because that's what it is. Any factory rifle that shoots under 1.00" is doing damn well in my opinion(We all know about opinions, right? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ).

If you expect to see groups in the .200" - .500" range, you need to steel youself for spending alot of cash on a bench rest rifle and the associated specialized reloading equipment required to wring out the performance in it. You will also need alot of time shooting it, and ridiculously detailed records of your results.

You will need to dope the wind using flags and read the mirage using a spotting scope. You will need a scope with something like 24X or better magnification. You just don't have the resolution to accurately place shots with anything much less. None of these conditions are very practical when you are shooting at coyotes.

Don't get caught up in the quest for the perfect load that's going to shoot .250" groups. You will never get there with a practical field rifle and it's a waste of time, money and energy to try.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet about accuracy either. From what I have read, just about everybody in the USA has bought themselves a bug-hole shooter right out of the box and do it with a $200 9X scope on it to boot. Everybody but me, that is. Heck, my AR-15 shoots "almost" 3/4" groups with hand loads and I'm tickled to death about that.

The bottom line is if you have to make shots of 300-500 yards on coyotes, you need a better calling technique, not a better rifle.

Take your 243 out and kill some coyotes with it. I'm sure they won't notice when your bullet hits them 1/2" off from where you aimed. Good hunting and good luck.
 
lol.. you guys are too much!!! okay.. i've had a bit more trouble since i talked to you first.. took my rifle to prairie dog town.. missed everything there.. nothing .. in a target rich invironment.. anyway.. i noticed it was hitting to the right.. took it to the range.. sure nuff.. hitting right.. checked scope rings.. lose.. so.. after tightening the rear scope rings.. i got decent groups.. again bout a quarter.. then i started messing with the center screw.. then all three of them.. i'm am so surprised at the difference those screws make.. but is it my imagination or does my poi move as the gun heats up.. anyway.. thanks guys for all the fun!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
IMO, the groups you are getting from a stock gun would tickle me pink. If you reload, im sure you might improve on that.
 
You are getting some good advice from these guys. I am curious about one thisng though. You mention that your POI change as the gun heats up. My first question is how fast are you shooting? Take your time and don't heat the barrel excessively (sp). It also sounds like you may have a pressure point and you need a bedding job. If you got your gun back from a smith and had loose screws ans such I would probably be looking for a better smith too. If you are doing quarter size groups with a factory gun and factory ammo I would be very pleased. I hand load and have several guns that shoot about where you are now. I have some that shoot well under that but in most cases the gun will always be capable of better groups than you and I. With your gun giving you thoses groups the best advice you got was from the person telling you to get more trigger time.

Just my $.02. Good luck

DLW
 
I'd say .750 five shot groups would work just fine for any predator hunter, if your shooting prairie dogs out at 500 years maybe .500 groups or below would be better. Now from what I've seen, if you're the average deer hunter and you can hit a pie tin at 100 yards your set LOL. Now days if a guy can shoot, he can buy some stock rifle and have it shoot a half inch with a good scope (right out of the box with factory ammo). Did someone mention trigger? A good rifle is only as good as it's trigger.
 
Saw a guy at the gunrange one day with some kind of Millimeter UltraShort Stretched Magnum Wildcat Improved Ackley. Had a scope with 18 knobs on it. This guy shot 5 shots at 300 yards and brought back a target with one solitary hole in it. If i didn't see it myself, i wouldn't have believed it.
 
I get tired of hearing people say that stock guns will not shoot tight groups (Don't get caught up in the quest for the perfect load that's going to shoot .250" groups. You will never get there .........). My last gun pruchased was a 223 Win70 Coyote topped with a Zeiss Conquest 6.5-20x50. First group out of the box with Black Hills 50 gr. V-Max measured .34". My first reloads with 25.5 gr H335 and 50 gr. V-Max averaged .22". All groups were 3 shots at 100 yards (sure I could have shot 5 shot groups maybe 10's, 20's....). All that was done to this stock gun was to tune the trigger to 2.5 lbs. and lap the barrel, all easily done myself. I'm sure that with the groups I have quoted I'll be tagged as a liar. I would have used my Rem. 700PSS 308 for the example, but it has been getting groups that I can't believe. I just don't see it as a waste of time. Just my opinion.
 
Dakota Yote, I think if you look back at some of the post, you'll notice I did say some stock rifles can shoot that good. When I started out predator hunting the rifles of today were not even thought of, it was the old 222 and 220 swift days. Come to think about it, it still is LOL, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Good Hunting and Stright Shooting.
 
I have a nice shooting 243 that will usually hold 3/4" groups @ 100. It is finicky though. Just found out last week that Varget is the magic powder that it likes. 75 and 85 gr bullets. But this rifle has consistancy, meaning that the group doesn't wonder around. I have a couple rifles that hold good groups but never on the bullseye.

So, IMHO if your factory rifle will stay zeroed and hold about 1" groups, I would be happy with it.
 
I have read a lot of accuracy claims on out of the box this and out of the box that. Here is my story:

I have two sessions on my brand new Browning .243 with factory rounds. For the first session I concentrated on sighting in the rifle. After 12 shots, my grouping was just above 1” (not including three flyers).

Having spent sometime analyzing the scores, I adjusted my scope and went back for my second session. At the end of 15 shots I was down to ¾” grouping. At that point my wife called and asked when I would be home and if I could pick something on my way home. That was when things really went bad. My next three shots, also my last three shots on that day, was over 1.5” grouping.

The conclusion I drawn on this is that the equipment is great but the operator has some room for improvement. I know for sure my mental state really affects my ability to perform. So there are my questions:

What can I do to improve my concentration?
Any suggestion on breathing and trigger exercises?

All suggestions or drills are welcome.

Danny Boy
 
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