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Originally Posted By: CatShooterThe only problem is... if you repeat the exact same test 5 times, the results will be different for each test.


They had a big "ladder" shoot-out at my club two years, with repeat loads tested, and at the end of it - none of the targets made any sense.


It always looks good when one set is presented... but when the same set of loads are shot on five targets, and all of it presented, it looks like scat.


Tell me more of the details on the "ladder shootout".  Type/quality of rifles used, conditions, ability of shooters, did conditions remain constant (If so, where are you located, our range is not that blessed.)  etc.?  If your club is like mine, all of the above will run the gamut from best to not so good.  Some of our shooters are High Masters all the way to unclassified, shooting custom target rifles to grandpa's deer rifle. Under these parameters, I would expect a confusing outcome trying to decipher five consecutive ladder tests.


As for duplicating a ladder test, or for that matter a five shot group, five consecutive times, the odds are really against any shooter.  Have you ever shot five identical 5 shot groups?  I know I can't remember ever doing so.   I don't shoot my best every time I go to the range and I know of few who do.  What I'm getting at is there are lots of variables to consider and few absolutes as you well know.  The author of the article I linked above says it better than I have been able to do:


 Quote:A drawback of the Audette Method is that EVERY shot is figured into the “ladder”.  If your rifle is prone to vertical dispersion (due to poor bedding, stock flexibility, poor quality optics, etc.) you may never be able to find the sweet spot based on any process that evaluates individual shots.  Simply stated, the normal dispersion of rifles that are less than benchrest quality will give false indications and overshadow any meaningful results. With benchrest quality rifles (Creighton Audette’s first love), the Ladder Method works extremely well.  But it can be error prone for sporters and other less precise rifles.  The use of a chronograph can help, but ultimately the ability to see how the bullets group on the target is also critically important.

 


I'm not sure you can use a group shoot with so many individuals shooting various firearms to discredit the value of the ladder method.


I am still of the opinion that an experienced shooter (who can reliably call a bad shot should it occur within a string), using good equipment and with reasonably decent shooting conditions can reliably find the accuracy nodes within which he/she can expect to develop the best load for his rifle.


Regards,

hm


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