Is 200 yards stretching night vision ?????

B

bluedog69

Active member
Hello, we are new to this night vision stuff. We have an ATN x sight 4K Pro 3 - 16 power. Topped it off with a coyote cannon. My 10 year old and 13 year old and I have been shooting this on top of a savage 223.

We have a spot behind our house where we rest on top of an old car roof and have a cow carcass at 200 yards. So far the score is 10 year old has two kills and 1 miss, 13 year old has one kill and 3 misses, I have zero kills and two misses.

I put 3 shots in about a 1.5" circle at 200 yards when checking zero without a very good rest on truck hood.

The video's we are getting look like we are dead on not shaking at all when the shot goes off. I am going to check the zero again, but so far this seems like they should be guaranteed dead dogs by the video and what my shots feel like.

Am I expecting too much at night? Digital scopes not great at long range? Can the daytime zero on these be different from night time zero?

Somewhat frustrated. Thanks in advance.
 
How far can you see the coyotes run after you shoot at them? What bullet are you shooting? What shot placement are you attempting? As in broadside, facing you, quartering etc. If you would post your videos we could prolly help a lot more. With .223, you are not likely to get much of a blood trail unless you hit pretty low. You could very well be hitting some you think you are missing, especially if you aren't using the best ammo for the job.

200 yds is doable with your equipment if you have your IR focused well.
 
Ok. Assume the kids and I can shoot sub MOA groups at 100, 200, and even 400 during the daytime with "glass" scopes.

Assume we have all shot a vast multitude of animals. Big, small, deer, coyotes etc.

Any ideas at all? I have seen some POI threads with thermals(640's?) Just looking for ideas.

Will definitely check zero in day and at night.

Had 9 at the cow last night 10 year old dead steady "perfect" shot on video....missed a MONSTER. Biggest of the 9. Then an hour later I missed one too.

About ready to try flipping a regular light on sending one with my 7 mag and my Meopta R2! LOL
 
Originally Posted By: weekenderHow far can you see the coyotes run after you shoot at them? What bullet are you shooting? What shot placement are you attempting? As in broadside, facing you, quartering etc. If you would post your videos we could prolly help a lot more. With .223, you are not likely to get much of a blood trail unless you hit pretty low. You could very well be hitting some you think you are missing, especially if you aren't using the best ammo for the job.

200 yds is doable with your equipment if you have your IR focused well.

Of course we try for broadside. The 10 year old dropped both of his broadside. The 13 year old front chested his, and I told him he should have waited, but he said he was dead steady and hit on the money. Cocky little turd! But he can shoot!

We were using 55 grain nosler ballistic tips. Then we switched to 52 gr HPBT match Sierra's(and we re-zeroed). Already had these loaded up and ready to go. Everything looks very clear IR is zoomed in on a tight spot.

After the shot the scope usually "whites out" and usually have no clue where they went. It is in an open field though with thin brush and fence rows 50 yards to 200 yards away.

The 10 year old did draw blood on the monster dog last night. On snow and it was very little. Looked like a double lung broadside shot.

Thanks for the reply!

Could throw it on a 22-250 bull barrel, but this 223 shoots dimes at 100 pretty easy.
 
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I have the X-sight II which was the model before yours. I have had it 5 years. Never had to touch the zero at all. UNLESS you have a mounting (loose) issue, you are unlikely to experience any POI issues with NV as even some high-end thermals see. These are two completely different animals, although I fully understand your thought train.

You didn't answer my questions about what bullet, how far you can see the misses run.

If you want the coyotes dead, but don't care if you recover them because they run a ways before they
died, aim for the yellow spot below. If you want them to fall over DRT, aim for the purple dot below.

Please let us know what you find on your zero check.

JWGWbXn.jpg
 
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Originally Posted By: weekenderI have the X-sight II which was the model before yours. I have had it 5 years. Never had to touch the zero at all. UNLESS you have a mounting (loose) issue, you are unlikely to experience any POI issues with NV as even some high-end thermals see. These are two completely different animals, although I fully understand your thought train.

You didn't answer my questions about what bullet, how far you can see the misses run.

If you want the coyotes dead, but don't care if you recover them because they run a ways before they
died, aim for the yellow spot below. If you want them to fall over DRT, aim for the purple dot below.

JWGWbXn.jpg


See my post above on bullets.
 
If you are "zeroing" at 100 yards(I zero during the day with my Wraith) you may not see the expected trajectory curve. This is because the digital scopes tend to be higher from center of rifle bore. I would zero at your shooting distance(center of the group of at least 3 slow fired shots) you don't want to have edge hits on coyote. And the main action, the aiming point and the target must be both steady, unmoving for a couple seconds. This because the you are not seeing optical light passing thru lens, but a digital image that refreshes. Much like trying to follow a hockey puck on a older TV vs watching the game live. The coyote may move slightly before the image is on the display. I want to shoot when legs/feet/head are motionless and my sight is correctly positioned. You will have spinners and runners with edge or other marginal hits. The only issue I have had with Wraith, the mounting nuts loosened slightly once, I now have them wired, much like racing fasteners.
 
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Your bullet choice should be fine. However, even with double lung and .223 you could get some runners. I too suffer from the white-out after the shot, very similar to a muzzle loader and the smoke. "which way did he go?" I have no clue. I just said that to myself a couple nights ago. I shoot the .223 as well and it's pot luck as to they fall over or run with a lung shot. I have found them 150-200 yds away several times having to grid search because of lack of blood. I have 52 years of bowhunting blood trailing experience.

Please try the purple dot on the picture for two coyotes and let us know what happened. What have you got to loose? lol
 
Mount the IR on bottom of gun far forward as you can to end of barrel it will almost eliminate “white out” in my experiences.


As said before shoot for purple dot!
 
The blindness after a shot when using IR and Digital NV is real and is a pain. You aren't seeing the coyotes react after the shot. If shooting suppressed, you should hear the "thwap" sound of the hit. It isn't always a dead give-away, but even when not suppressed, it is often heard.

Digital tech has come a long ways in terms of accuracy. Like I say a lot, "if was as accurate or more, then people would use them at shooting competitions. However, they are totally capable of shots in the ranges you are talking about.

With many traditional shaped thermals, I agree with spotstalkshoot the height over bore is higher than most glass scopes, so they should be zeroed different, so the highest part of the trajectory isn't in the sweet spot of most shots. However, since the Xsight 4K Pro is more of a glass scope design, I am not sure how far it sits off bore and that may not be the case.
 
Originally Posted By: bluedog69Originally Posted By: weekenderHow far can you see the coyotes run after you shoot at them? What bullet are you shooting? What shot placement are you attempting? As in broadside, facing you, quartering etc. If you would post your videos we could prolly help a lot more. With .223, you are not likely to get much of a blood trail unless you hit pretty low. You could very well be hitting some you think you are missing, especially if you aren't using the best ammo for the job.

200 yds is doable with your equipment if you have your IR focused well.

Of course we try for broadside. The 10 year old dropped both of his broadside. The 13 year old front chested his, and I told him he should have waited, but he said he was dead steady and hit on the money. Cocky little turd! But he can shoot!

We were using 55 grain nosler ballistic tips. Then we switched to 52 gr HPBT match Sierra's(and we re-zeroed). Already had these loaded up and ready to go. Everything looks very clear IR is zoomed in on a tight spot.

After the shot the scope usually "whites out" and usually have no clue where they went. It is in an open field though with thin brush and fence rows 50 yards to 200 yards away.

The 10 year old did draw blood on the monster dog last night. On snow and it was very little. Looked like a double lung broadside shot.

Thanks for the reply!

Could throw it on a 22-250 bull barrel, but this 223 shoots dimes at 100 pretty easy.

If you reload & get your hands on hornady 40gr v-max & accurate 2200 powder give them a whirl. When I was running a .223 I killed 9 with that load & 2 with a .222 with the 40gr v-max. The 11 never moved DRT. The bullets are easy to find, not so much the powder. When I first started I killed several with NV at 200 & 300 yards. No poi problems. You can pm me if you want more information.
I had several runners with 52gr sierras. Thats why I went to 40gr v-max 3750 fps.
 
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I have the same scope on one of my night guns bluedog but have never shot at that distance at night mainly because of the lack of areas to shoot that far in my area. I'd say the longest shot on a coyote might have been 125 yards and it was a hit. I can shoot out to 150 at my range property and have no problem with achieving good groups at that distance.

Have never experienced any differences with regards to point of impact vs point of aim when sighting in during the daytime or night.

Hope you figure it out and please keep us posted. My videos also plume after a shot. If you can post your videos here it might help to see what's going on when viewed frame by frame.

I assume you are shooting off a rest or a bipod for stability?
 
I have never experienced any difference in impact sighting in during the day and shooting at night with digital. The one thing I see here is the 52 gr sierra matchking through a .223. Man, I had bad luck with that bullet in .223. No good. From much reading, I experienced what a lot have, in that .223 may not have enough speed for reliable expansion resulting in a pass through like a FMJ. Much better results at .22-250 speeds. I switched to a 60 gr vmax in .223 with much better results. My guess is pass throughs and the coyotes are dead some where.
.223 and digital should be no problem at 200 yd.
 
I have shot steel at 300 yards with my ATN on 6.5 grendel.
Accuracy didn’t change day vs night with mine.

When i used .223 on coyotes , I had lots of spinners and runners . At that time I was shooting 75gr hollow point hornady match ammo.
We found switching to 55gr varmageddon was game changer. Not many runners or spinners with it, maybe 1 or 2.
It seemed very explosive at all angle of shots.
 
Update. Tonight we shot again at 200 off the truck hood. Pretty steady considering we had some gusty cross winds. My 10 year old put 3 in the 3” Bullseye. I strung two shots about 9” apart straight up and down. My 13 year old had a two inch group about an inch left of bull. Wind was right to left. He also had a 6” spread vertical group and another spread up and down also.
Not what I expected with cross wind. All shots in 9” up and down and 3.5” left to right. Pretty pathetic. I got to thinking about my 22-250 comment and got to thinking that I checked group size on the Sierra 52 grain out to 300 in the 22-250 but not the 223. Reloaded up some 55 gr Nosler ballistic tips tonight. This gun has loved this load in the past. Gonna check groups at 200 with it tomorrow if I am lucky.
The boys blood trailed the monster from the night before about 3/8 of a mile before he stopped bleeding. May look again with them this weekend. Tonight the 13 year old evidently missed again. Had two on the carcass. We spent a couple of minutes waiting for broadside. He was dead steady. Bipod added today to the mix. Expected a dropped dog no wind. But didn’t happen.

Thanks for all the tips. Have several options to try to see what is going on. Feel like we should have a dozen dead dogs by now.
 
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I run my 2-16 Wraith factory light under the gas block, and a Streamlight super tac(IR) in Weaver ring on top of the Wraith. Using the 2 I have no problem seeing/aiming/identify out 300 yards. I set the factory light focus about midway, the Streamlight is a tight beam. This combo seems to give some depth of field and reduces shadows.
 
My savage 223 shoots factory hornady 55 grain vmax .5 inch at a hundred. Just an idea as far as a bullet to try to get your groups under control so you can determine if the scope has an issue. If you can you should try to shoot the gun benched so that you can rule out other factors if you think it’s the scope. I’m sure your boys are having blast going after those yotes. Sounds like a good time.
 

Years ago I built a custom tight necked 22-250 on a Remington 40-X for prairie dogs, and had a fantastic load worked up with the Sierra 52 HPBT Match bullets.

They ended up being a pathetic choice for PD's, way too inconsistent in performance. Some would open up just fine, others would just pencil through.

Last time I ever used those for meat or fur.....
 
I haven’t shot this gun much in the last 15 years or so. It was grouping the 55 gr Noslers in almost one hole. I took four squirrels heads off at 150 yards one day. Made a nice meal out of them.

Hopefully the switch back will produce dime sized groups at 100. If not I will begin the process of switching and eliminating variables. Fastest thing would be try a regular scope again just to check grouping.
 


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